Wild new plan to eradicate smoking in Australia entirely

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by JET3534, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    lot of foods with cyanide - the dose makes the posion

    https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/cyanide/basics/facts.asp

    "Cyanide is released from natural substances in some foods and in certain plants such as cassava, lima beans and almonds. Pits and seeds of common fruits, such as apricots, apples, and peaches, may have substantial amounts of chemicals which are metabolized to cyanide. The edible parts of these plants contain much lower amounts of these chemicals."

    Thirsty for some almond milk now?

    in fact

    "Foods That Can Be Toxic If You Eat Them in Excess"

    https://www.fix.com/blog/foods-that-can-be-toxic/
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
    JET3534 and Have at it like this.
  2. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That mentality is my only objection to universal healthcare.

    Let me opt out of Medicare and actually live life then. I don't want your charity if it comes with control.
     
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  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    WATER can be toxic if you drink it in excess

    DHMO is one of the most common substances on the planet and one of the most dangerous
    https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
    Have at it likes this.
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, that would be the only thing I fear with universal healthcare as well, using it to control the people

    people can't be denied because they smoke or are overweight, ect...

    but private care is just as bad, if they are allowed to use pre-existing conditions again, same thing
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  5. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

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    Even water..


    In severe cases, water intoxication can cause seizures, brain damage, a coma, and even death. Bottom line: Drinking too much water can increase the pressure inside the skull. This can cause various symptoms and, in severe cases, become fatal. Your answers will help us improve our experience.May 14, 2020
    upload_2020-10-13_18-49-21.png
    Medical News Today › articles
    Water intoxication: What happens when you drink too ...
     
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  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Then also please please opt out of using healthcare

    Bottom line - I have seen far far too many die a horrible death from the effects of smoking.

    upload_2020-10-14_10-48-15.png
    upload_2020-10-14_10-51-20.jpeg

    You do not want to be tied to an oxygen generator for the last few years of life
     
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if science want to prove water was dangerous, they could

    just like with cigarettes they put monkeys in plastic cages with smoke so thick you could cut it with a knife, not realistic, but good for propaganda

    never hear anti-smokers mention that the longest person to have ever lived was a smoker as it doesn't suit the propaganda

    there is risks with too much of many things, that is true, even water

    the stress and coughing fits those animals suffered from in itself, raised the cancer risk - stress kills

    maybe we should outlaw anything stressful to humans
     
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  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    We DON’T “control” people But we DO put in place advertising, helplines, intervention teams etc etc etc

    Having said that

    We were the first country in the world to mandate seatbelts

    We have legislation (varies state to state) mandating Child proof fences around Swimming pools

    We have tougher road safety rules

    We have tougher workplace health and safety legislation

    and don’t go there with guns;)

    Bottom line
     
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do not approve of mandated seatbelts either... I think it wise to wear them, but I would prefer education campaigns to mandatory compliance

    I would require carmakers install them though, so people can make the choice

    kids school buses don't have seat belts, which is odd
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Because that was ONE person and how do you know how much they smoked, what type of cigarette they smoked and whether or not they inhaled or in most claims that litter the internet whether or not they are as old as claimed

    Meanwhile I have SEEN early deaths by cigarette in far far far too many people

    upload_2020-10-14_11-12-4.jpeg
    I have a good friend who is in his fifties and developed bladder cancer. He was one of the lucky ones because they were able to remove his bladder but of course that meant he has to have a “bag” for his his urine and has no feeling in his penis and bye bye sex life
     
  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have never known anyone that suffered those diseases from smoking, but have known some that did from too many carbs

    metabolic disease like diabetes is the number one cost to our health care system

    sugar feeds cancer, did your friend eat sugar?

    we all get cancer now and then, just normally the body takes care of it before it becomes a issue.... unless your consuming too many carbs that is

    when your insulin is high all the time, you never get a chance to go into autophagy to clean up the body of things like cancer

    https://www.healthline.com/health/autophagy

    "Autophagy is the body's way of cleaning out damaged cells, in order to regenerate newer, healthier cells, according to Priya Khorana, PhD, in nutrition education from Columbia University. “Auto” means self and “phagy” means eat. So the literal meaning of autophagy is “self-eating.”"

    “Fasting is [the] most effective way to trigger autophagy,” explains Petre.

    “Ketosis, a diet high in fat and low in carbs brings the same benefits of fasting without fasting, like a shortcut to induce the same beneficial metabolic changes,” she adds. “By not overwhelming the body with an external load, it gives the body a break to focus on its own health and repair.”
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  12. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for a thoughtful answer. It is nice on PF to actually engage in a discussion with people I disagree with on issues, when it is a real discussion.

    I don't think the taxing of unhealthy foods would go over well in the US with conservatives or libertarians. Maybe not even most liberals as they enjoy unhealthy food and are just as obese as any other political persuasion.

    However, that being said, some liberals want to dictate food decisions for Americans. I gather that you are Australian so you may not be aware that Michelle Obama in her unelected role as self appointed dictator imposed healthy food requirements on school lunches. As I recall, this was done via "regulations", i.e., dictates by the Obama Agriculture Department. As I further recall, the Obama Agriculture Department rolled out the school lunch rules out on Michelle Obama's birthday to flaunt their exercise of dictatorial powers. The result was predictable -- the school children refused to eat the food they were served and it ended up in the trash. This is liberalism at work in the US - serving healthy food to children that refuse to eat it. Fortunately President Trump rolled back the Michelle Obama lunch program. So it is little things like this that make me appreciate Trump. Things that people in other countries could never be aware of when reading media stories about him.
     
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  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, both parties do it, Nixon started it with the food pyramid, his goal was to steady food prices, that worked, but after 50 years we see the unintended consequences of his actions

    Michel tried to push more natural foods, but then moved to move more - I am sure this was because of corporate push back and the costs to do it (processed food is just so much cheaper), the real issue is too many carbs, but people love their carbs, it's an addiction to many and a hard sell and if everyone did it at the same time the food supply could not handle it

    the population has increased bigly due to cheap processed food, but health issues have grown because of it as well

    public schools have had to follow federal guidelines to get federal funding long before Obama, that is why ketchup was classified a vegetable if you can remember that under Reagan

    but like you said, these rules had good intentions (left and right), they just had unintended consequences and stopped schools from serving healthier alternatives
     
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  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    science sometimes gets it wrong, cholesterol was one of those things, because this was labeled bad wrongly, all foods like eggs, butter, ect... were classified as bad, but since then we have learned that was based on faulty information that cholesterol or saturated fat was bad and we have now learned that the alternatives like margarine and other heavily processed seed oils that the government pushed on us was what was really bad
     
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  15. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    IMHO Nixon was not a good President. He did I believe create the EPA which was a good thing. He also created the war on drugs which has been a total disaster. Nixon is directly responsible for the China problem we have today.

    Michelle Obama had no right to push anything. She was not elected to a political position.

    I have started trying to avoid carbs. A cup of coffee with a tablespoon of MCT oil (I use a brand called Brain Octane) kills my appetite for the entire day. I have seen people get great success with a Keto diet.

    I have a theory about obesity, and also gender dysphoria. I believe a lot of the problem is estrogen like compounds in our food and water. I remember not that many years ago when hermaphrodite fish started turning up in the Potomac River downstream from the Washington DC waste water treatment plant. It got me thinking what happens to all of the metabolized birth control pills (estrogen and progesterone) that get peed out and end up in waste treatment centers? Did we have such a large percentage of obese people before the use of birth control pills became common?
     
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  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Sooooo? How is a proposal to limit sales of cigarettes (and remember this is just a proposal by a non governmental body) somehow translate to “Australians are going to lose all rights”!
     
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    We tax alcohol too
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    My words exactly!
    And it proved to be a furphy anyway because I found a systematic review/meta-analysis That showed smokers were dying faster than anyone else from Covid
     
  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yes and “science” got it wrong about the benefits of cigarette smoking - aided and abetted of course by the Tobacco industry
     
  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Cigars do less damage to the lungs but increase your risk of throat and facial cancers and after seeing the impact of layngectomies (they remove your voicebox and you have to breathe through a tracheostomy hole) and “commando” operations where parts of the tongue and cheeks are removed (yeah it involves complex plastic surgery) I think I would rather have the lung cancer
     
  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think people are just afraid if it passes it could be a slippery slope, they are already taxed high enough that most can't afford to smoke a harmful amount, so I say leave it be
     
  22. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    True smokers pay a lot of tax, more than just the amount needed to treat their illnesses. The rest should go to anti smoking health messages and subsidizing treatment programs. But Governments should also try very hard to reduce the 'free rider principal' to the absolute minimum possible. (Our politician's own 'free ride' at public expense apparently being the one universal exception to that rule of course.)

    It is axiomatic (IMO) that to the extent an individual's habit, hobby or actions etc imposes a health cost on the general public then they have to pay their fair share of it. If you smoke, you pay the taxes on cigarettes that cover all the treatment & public health costs etc related to your smoking induced illnesses. If you ride a bike you pay for the cost in your mandatory insurance premium. And for all of the run-of-the-mill things like partying? Well over here at least our taxes pay for a national public health system. In the US? I guess you have hope you have medical coverage via your employer or whatever.
     
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  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    did they though, that would be like a doctor saying the sun is good for you and another saying too much is bad for you... both are right

    I think cigarette smoking has risks, but I think it has been over demonized more so than the realty of it and think it also has some benefits if not done to excess, just like alcohol

    now if one doesn't smoke, I do not recommend they start, same with alcohol
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is allowed to smoke within sniffing distance of pubs, restaurants and especially areas where children are. Bottom line - our smoking rate Australia wide has plummeted - mostly in the cities though. We still have a massive issue in the rural and remote communities
     
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Sorry won’t convince me

    I have cared for more terminally ill smokers than I care to count
    It is a HORRIBLE way to die
     

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