Wild new plan to eradicate smoking in Australia entirely

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by JET3534, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    from your early post though, seems you attribute unknown causes to smoking without knowing... that is a bias based diagnosis imo

    I think many issues caused by over consumption of carbs is attributed to smoking

    it's kinda like fatty liver was also diagnosed as an issue with drinking alcohol, but now we know it can also be caused by consuming fructose (sugar is half fructose) - so if they consume both, but alcohol is only occasionally consumed, which is the cause? most doctors would say alcohol, even tough they do not know as it's the easy box to check and no one questions it

    I prefer a diagnosis of "Unknown - possibly smoking" if it is unknown for sure, making a declarative statement when it is not know is bad medical care and shames the patient when there may be no reason too and it also skews the statistics
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  2. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Individual freedom is not the foundation of your country, so whatever rights you have are always going to be at some risk. Not that much different than the US really, but at least I have a right to own a firearm.
     
  3. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    My fear with universal healthcare is health rationing. With my current health care and as a result of decisions I have made I have excellent health care. I understand other people do not have good health care options and on that basis I would support some form of basic universal healthcare -- but this has to be balanced with offsetting budget cutting and cannot be offered to people in the country illegally. This idea that everything can be free when we have record debt is hard to grasp.
     
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think private or public insurance will both have issues in the near future, because metabolic disease is getting out of control which will raise insurance costs - both are gonna ration care, cause there is only so much money collected in taxes or collected in premiums

    as this cost gets out of control, I think we will see a tax on sugars as high as we do on cigarettes today, a sweet snack could cost $25.00

    "Trump Official Says Diabetes a Preexisting Condition Not Worthy of Coverage"

    https://insulinnation.com/living/tr...t-a-preexisting-condition-worthy-of-coverage/

    the government knows this cost is getting out of control..... the sad thing is... the government caused this with their dietary guidelines

    the reality is, Americans would pay less for government coverage as your not paying the middle man, no one has to take their cut - but yes, I share your fears if not implemented right or if some try to self sabotage the public option
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    not like smoking and I think alcohol does more damage to society

    I am against taxing anything more than 100% the cost of the product though

    the reality is, most that drink or smoke will be just fine, it's those that do it to excess that have the problems imo
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No

    Smokers will NOT be “just fine”

    it is not all about the cancer
    upload_2020-10-14_13-47-35.jpeg

    peripheral vascular disease
    upload_2020-10-14_13-48-56.jpeg
     
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  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do not believe that was caused by smoking, you will never convince me of that

    I would guess too many carbs..... and it being blamed on smoking by an anti-smoking doctor
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I do

    I work in the field and believe me - this is real and very very evident

    We have the evidence - Cath labs have allowed us to see real time the difference
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    don't believe it, there is no way you can prove it was related, you might think so, but can not prove it
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that doesn't prove anything, I can show that sugar cause problem in the veins too, no way to know for sure - you're making an assumption when you do not know for sure
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Maaaate

    Just about the ONLY time you will see an angio like the one above on a skinny person is when they are also a smoker

    upload_2020-10-14_13-59-5.png

    I am talking hers about what we call “bushies” men who work on cattle properties droving and fencing and just hard work all day - their idea of a meal is steak and steak and maybe some potato and a lone pea:p

    But they smoke - usually “rollies” ( roll your own”) and when we do the angio what we see is similar to the picture above - and it usually is the LAD aka the “widow maker” because it is the artery that supplies most of the muscle on the left side of your heart
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    More angios
    upload_2020-10-14_14-5-8.jpeg
     
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    The correlation is clear
    upload_2020-10-14_14-7-11.jpeg
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    https://www.hopkinsvasculitis.org/types-vasculitis/buergers-disease/
    upload_2020-10-14_14-9-46.jpeg

    Sit down and have a discussion with yourself - I had to. You are obviously interested in staying healthy. Ask yourself why you are doing this damage to yourself ( although I was more brutal I asked myself why I as intent on committing slow suicide)

    IF you are interested in stopping smokinG then PM me Or post a question and I will lay out strategies to make giving up easier - won’t lie it is NEVER “easy” but it can be made easier
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I have no issues with that = diabetes is well known to cause damage but so does smoking
     
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  17. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What I do or do not want for myself is my business and noone else's.
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is YOUR business

    But please do not blame healthcare workers if YOU get bladder cancer and have to have a “pelvic clearance” done
     
  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Do you smokers really realise the life altering impact of things like larygectomies?
    upload_2020-10-14_15-41-38.jpeg
     
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can accept that as a possibility, but I am not convinced that smoking caused it and there really is no way to know
     
  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, and can't prove it was caused by smoking, high probability, but not proof, doctors will just assume it though if the patient is a smoker, if they were not, it will just be cancer

    if it was not caused by smoking, then doctors have made him feel guilty for the rest of his life for nothing

    that is the problem I have with declaring it smoking related when can not be proved to be

    now I am not saying smoking doesn't cause lung damage if done to excess, it can - but the losing fingers, toes, ect... that is more likely to be too much glucose in the blood too often imo
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    So do I
     
  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No take it from me - there is absolute proof and if you want me to I will chase down the research data
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    there is no proof, you can't prove it, as nonsmokers have same conditions

    they can only come up with possible causes... not 100% proof

    it's just like fatty liver was always thought to be alcoholism until they realized other options existed, like drinking too much fruit juice or soda daily and combine that with a snickers or something, with sugar cereal for breakfast.... :)

    my bet, is if smoking ceased 100%, we would still see these cases if diets remained the same
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No mate

    we take all factors into account

    again do you want me to post the research?
     

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