What happens when Obamacare killed?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Ronstar, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I tend to stay away from health care discussions, since my views are complex.

    I'd offer this

    1. ACA is an abomination and should be destroyed
    2. The poor don't need health insurance; they need health care
    3. Pre-existing conditions is tricky; we can't have people going into bankruptcy because they have a chronic illness, but asking insurance to pay for the illness after the fact, is like looking for auto insurance coverage after you've had an accident
    4. We should get employers out of the health care coverage business. Their costs would go WAY down from having to manage it; they can give the current money they contribute to an employee plan, directly to the employees
    5. We should allow insurance companies to compete across state lines. When companies have to compete, we the people, win.
    6. Healthcare is a finite resource, so we can't ever hope that everyone can have every procedure they need and/or desire
    7. Treatment costs should not be a mystery. A procedure that costs "$850," but only really costs $92, is a serious problem in the system

    We need creative solutions, but it's not possible in the current climate. All the partisans think this is an easy issue, but it's not. When we can stop behaving like animals, and stop flinging poo at each other, maybe we can have the required adult conversations.

    The only agenda should be to fix the problem, starting with the root cause.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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  2. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Almost entirely because the Democrat version of "negotiating " amounts to "If you don't give us what we want, you are a racist who wants babies to die".
     
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  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and Trump thinks everyone who wont give him his way is an Anarchist Antifa Commy traitor
     
  4. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Cmon. We just saw the GOP negotiate. Dems came down to a number between what they wanted and what the GOP wanted, and the GOP CUT their offer in half.

    That’s how Republicans negotiate
     
  5. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    ...in reaction to the Democrat's "If you don't give us what we want, you are a racist who wants babies to die".
    You don't want compromise you want acquiescence.
    And you won't get it.
     
  6. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    Premiums and deductibles exploded with the ACA and the the coverage and quality declined exponentially. I opted out of the ACA early on instead got collaborative concierge healthcare in conjunction with a hospital and my physician. It is all inclusive with no deductibles and no copays. Office visits happen on the dot, little or no waiting and I got to keep my doctor. This was a little more expensive at first but with the meteoric rise of cost under the ACA it's now about the same. All of the physicians in this practice decided that they had, had enough of government interference and formed this collaborative. Without the pressure of regulation and cost controls, care became more patient focused, packed waiting rooms, long waits and rushed visits ceased and the quality soared. This is what happens when doctors and patients decide what healthcare is going to be. If you are happy with the ACA you can keep the ACA and that's no lie. The only good thing to come from the ACA is it's a definitive preview of the crap that single payer is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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  7. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Quite the contrary. Premiums have gone up SLOWER than prior to the ACA
     
  8. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Please keep your personal attacks and accusatory bullshit to yourself.
     
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  9. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    Everything else about your post I agree with except for this one. This is a typical line that is thrown out by those against the ACA, but the reality is far different.

    Most insurance carriers already operate in multiple states already. The problem is that each and every state creates its own rules for how insurance companies operate within their borders. The faulty premise here is the belief that if someone lives in NY, they should be able to purchase a health insurance plan from another state that has a lower premium, but the problem is that the plans that are sold in NY are based upon the medical costs in NY. Purchasing a plan from PA isn't going to cover your costs in NY.

    Secondly, the belief in capitalistic market competition to lowering prices for health insurance is completely misplaced. Sure, it works for non-critical care like dentistry, optometry, and a whole host of cosmetic procedures, but not critical medical care. The reason for that is because for 90% of medical interactions you're basically doing preventative maintenance, but the other 10% involves illness, accidents, and traumas, and it is in those areas where free-market principles do not apply because the actual consumer of services is your provider, not you.
     
  10. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We need government OUT of the health care business.

    We switched over to a major medical plan a few years ago. We've saved so much money; this year, we're experiencing higher than usual health care costs due to an injury. All the money we saved in our HSA are basically making the medical costs non-existent. We put our money in there, instead of a Platinum level health care plan.

    The government has no business telling me I can't do business with XYZ company. None whatsoever. Stay out of it; it's MY health.

    The reality is that competition reduces prices. My father's first calculator in 1965 cost him $600. Now you don't even pay that for a high quality laptop. Competition WORKS. Period.
     
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  11. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    It's a fair question.
     
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  12. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Well bully for you that you found your collaborative consierge healthcare coverage. But that doesn't address the issue. You've stated that there was inexpensive, good coverage for all in the US prior to the ACA. That's what you and I are discussing - not something that is available to some in some places. And if it was more expensive in the beginning, you can bet it wouldn't be afforded by a great many citizens.
     
  13. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    1. No
    2. No
    3. obama created this mess.
     
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  14. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So are you thinking that government mandated healthcare will contain provisions that FORCE citizens to go to the doctor when they are feeling sick? Will it contain mandates that FORCE people to avoid the vegetable chiller when they are contagious? Will there be teams of health police that patrol the streets looking for sick people and FORCE them to avoid contact with other citizens? If it is your contention that the reason to have government mandated healthcare is to protect you at the vegetable chiller, then your reasoning is ridiculous. Instead, I would suggest that a citizen who is much concerned about others at the vegetable chiller should wrap himself in a protective bubble when he goes out.

    If every highly intelligent, highly compassionate leftist would pay for someone else's healthcare, we would have this problem whipped, but I guess the highly compassionate aren't really all that compassionate.
     
  15. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    Prior to the ACA healthcare was no more expensive than any other necessity like putting a roof over your head or buying groceries but you had to belong to a group which meant you had to be employed. For those on public assistance, healthcare was a part of that package. If you somehow found yourself between the cracks there was still subsidized healthcare in most states. Long before Obama came along socialized medicine was already a hot topic and proponents were touting the UK and Canada models but like anything else that's too good to be true, it drew a lot of skepticism and rightly so. As it turned out both Canada and the UK healthcare programs have been disasters and the ACA is worse. The ACA never really launched properly and to this day still isn't functioning as consistent, uniform nationwide program because it wasn't ever meant to be. It was the first salvo in a cynical scheme to destroy the existing structure of America and replace it with socialism. Obama and his crowd right away discovered that they were up against a formidable enemy, the Constitution and the American people and just as quickly abandoned healthcare. Of course they blamed this failure on the Republicans. They are still pushing their socialist agenda and God forbid they ever prevail, the whole of America will become a huge failure similar to what has happened to our healthcare.
     
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  16. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Don't put words in my mouth. ASK!
     
  17. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The first three sentences of my post ended in question marks, and were questions. ANSWER!
     
  18. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    I'll only answer your uncivil demands because you're trying to play innocent.

    Of course not! That's an utterly absurd thought! Don't you know how standard US government works????

    Of course not! That's an utterly absurd thought! Don't you know how standard US government works????

    Of course not! That's an utterly absurd thought! Don't you know how standard US government works????

    You show what you're made of with such nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  19. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So then you admit that your assertion that government mandated healthcare will protect you from me while you are at the vegetable chiller is absurd - which was my point in the first place.

    This is what you said:

    With your answers to the questions, you are agreeing that government cannot protect you at the vegetable chiller - in fact, you agree that it is absurd. So using the "vegetable chiller argument" as a reason for mandatory government established healthcare (which you did) is ridiculous.
     
  20. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Thousands of pages of onerous regulation and requirements disappear
     
  21. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sweeping and incorrect statement.
     
  22. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    Please elaborate.
     
  23. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Except that has nothing to do with competition.
     
  24. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The fact that competition always reduces the prices to the consumer, is not related to competition, how?
     
  25. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Competition doesn't reduce prices.
     

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