Race and Crime

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by Conservative Democrat, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    There are numerous reasons for someone to choose crime and none of them are things you will accept and all of them are things you will distort to frame me as a racist.

    But, I will answer it for you anyways.

    Choosing robbery, theft and burglary is a way of getting stuff without having to work and save for them. Those with very poor self- and impulse-control are probably more likely (although not predestined) to commit such crimes. In a sense, how well you handle your impulses is a choice too as anyone can choose not to act upon them and choose to better their self-control.

    Probably, childhood experiences and parenting plays a role too and that is not a choice for the child, but it is for the parent.

    Culture also plays a role and relates to what I said above about bad parenting (bad culture and bad parenting fed of one and other). But, no man is a slave to his culture and he can choose to leave it any time.

    Your view that everything is deterministic, unchangeble and never the criminal's fault is rather unhumane and masdively depressing. If you were correct (which you aren't), it would mean that some people are just either born and/or destined to be criminals. My view brings hope of the possibility of a better world and emphasises each individual's capacity for self-improvement.

    If we start to promote reason, a lot of things would become so much better.

    Crime is not the cause of poverty, race, genitalia or any other form of interal body chemistry. It is the cause of individual choice.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  2. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Cuz your favorite singers talk about how much money they make doing crime, actors talk about how awesome it is, sports heroes get arrested for nasty crimes, and people around you tell you that it's not your fault you chose crime.

    Apologists are self-pleasing.
     
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  3. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    I assume what I wrote was new information and you were unable to process it. You might try reading it again. It was not "deterministic, unchangeble and never the criminal's fault is rather unhumane and massively depressing."

    28% of black kids living in poverty is a very large number. Some are stressed to a degree to cause brain changes, but the brain is plastic. The changes can be ameliorated by early intervention. Early high quality pre-school, available social services and reduction in social and environmental stressors.

    Can you see that the few that fall into this category to varying degrees have poor emotional and impulse control, emotionally labile, little foresight or empathy for others, probable school drop out, have psych problems and more likely to have addictions. I am not excusing anything, but pointing out why some turn to crime and make poor parents?
     
  4. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I read an article once that said even when they put fresh fruit and veg in some of these neighborhoods, it went to waste because nobody would buy it so finally they gave up trying.
     
  5. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    If you think that the argument of "poverty causes crime" is new or revolutionising to anyone, you are having waaay too high assumptions about yourself.

    It is a garbage theory that is nothing but deterministic mumbojumbo.

    A majority of crimes are commited by a very small minority. The relationship between crime and poverty is just merely a correlation and taking it as the cause for crime is very perceptual and narrow, not to mention vicious as it equates everyone and anyone who lives under relative poverty as soon-to-be-criminals who can snap at any moment.

    It is very easy to find such superficial correlations; Nearly 100% of criminals are male, does this mean having a penis is the cause of crime? Relative to population, Black Americans commit more crime than White Americans, does this mean being born an African American male is deemed to end in a life of degeneracy and crime? Even worse - What if he is a poor, Black, immigrant male? I mean, it is just stupid.

    Ugh. Such biological determinism and collectivist monolithism is very disgusting and extremely prejudiced. Of course, it is - sadly - the dominant narrative today where various experts and intellectuals point to correlations between group identity and crime and genuine racial supremacists do the exact same. Everyone seems to be neglecting the individual and denying that there is agency and free will. According to you, intellectuals and "racial realists", it is all determined at birth.

    Imagine growing up as a poor child in such a society... Instead of telling the child poverty, gender, race and what-have-you causes crime, you should tell them that they can succeed!

    Not that anecdotes stand as arguments or anything, but I grew up in a relatively poor neighbourhood and went to the local school that was among the worst performing in the city with a rumour of being "unsafe" (during my years nothing worse than kids setting fire to bathroom dustbins, shooting fireworks across the floor and an obviously unserious bomb-threat happened ). My parents were divorced and both lack higher education and are immigrants. Yet, believe it or not, I have never committed any other felony than taking home a pencil the teacher borrowed me. Not even once has the thought of robbing someone or stealing something ever crossed my mind!

    My maternal grandmother grew up very poor on the countryside with 9 siblings and Soviets were invading the country she lived in. A situation no child in contemporary America - thankfully - has to endure. Shouldn't she be super prone to a life of crime? If crime is so strongly linked to poverty and stress, why didn't any of these 10 kids ever end up there? See, Edna.... It is ridiculous. Just ridiculous.

    Are you a "Racial Realist" by any chance? You sure sound like one with your aggregations of group data and references to internal body chemistry.

    Neither stress nor poverty leads to crime.

    Bottom line is that they choose to act out their impulses. They do not really have to, but they do and thus, crime is a choice and so is bad parenting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  6. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like a racist conspiracy theory. Definitely fake news.

    I do not like your tone at all. You are talking about people living in relative poverty in a very condescending and demeaning way. Claiming crime is in their genes because their parents were poor and that they are animals who can only act on instinct and impulse, animals who have no idea what a carrot is and who are easily stressed.

    This is very, very, very, very disgusting. Yet, I am not shocked at all since it is a behaviour contemporary smug "Liberals" make themselves guilty of again and again.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  7. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Then thing is that there are actually plenty of characteristics in these entertainers that are admireble - they all pursued their values and optimised their potential. Many of them went from poor to millionaires. But, what is looked up on is instead the degeneracy glorified in rap music and the "coolness" of an athlete who does something awful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  8. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Yes facts are racist. "Over the past decade, state and municipal-level governments have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on incentives to encourage grocery store development in these areas, on the premise that their absence is the primary cause of diet-related health issues like obesity and chronic disease. But what if that assumption isn’t really accurate and is instead a classic case of correlation mistaken for causation? Emerging research has found that the extent to which a supermarket’s location shapes our food choices may be significantly overstated, and that subsidizing their expansion does remarkably little to change what people eat." https://thecounter.org/is-it-time-to-retire-the-term-food-desert-grocery-snap/
     
  9. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    The science is relatively new and you can deny it all you want. Your simple answer to the problem of crime is choice and parenting will not solve the problem, it just assigns blame. The science gives insights on how to prevent the child from turning criminal in the teen years...but you don't seem interested in prevention just blame which gets society nowhere.
     
  10. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    That's overstating it. We had a small chain (4 stores) that served the inner city. The owner said he put eggplants in his store one time, because he likes eggplants, and nobody bought them. They didn't know what to do with them, but he couldn't keep enough in-season greens. Kiwis didn't work either. He went out of business because he lost his profit margin due to Dollar Stores.
    People tend to eat as adult what the grew up eating. If breakfast was Mountain Dew and Fritos it may be your comfort food. To some now a Big Mac is comfort food, not mom's Hoppin' John.
     
  11. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Not all problems are complicated, hun. And yes, it will solve the problem - If people stop choosing being awful parents and people stop choosing crime, crime goes away. ;)

    Your explanation says that some people are just born to be criminal "because hormones" or whatever, that means there is no solution and that is rather pessimistic.

    There is zero support in reality to the case that poverty causes crime.
     
  12. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Blame determines responsibility, you refuse to hold the people committing the crimes for their actions. Black people are directly responsible for their criminal behavior.
     
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  13. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Wh
    Hormones? Whose posts have you been reading?
    "There is zero support in reality to the case that poverty causes crime" Cite the evidence.
     
  14. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Who does the crime needs to do the time. How long have the right-wingers been pointing the blame finger and what has that accomplished? "Black people are directly responsible for their criminal behavior." Why just them?
     
  15. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Your political affiliation has no bearing on the responsibility here. Would you like a list of the hand outs? Blacks are 13% of the population and receive 41.6% of welfare money. In 2020 there are 71 BLACK ONLY scholarship groups. I can continue listing the amount of free things that blacks are given exclusively, but your poverty argument carries no water. All people are responsible for their behavior, criminal or otherwise. However blacks commit over half of all murders and kill 5 white people for every ONE black person murdered, and kill each other at a rate 93%.

    Everyone is responsible for their behavior so quit pretending it's not that persons' fault.
     
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  16. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    How am I overstating it when you just restated what I said?
     
  17. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    A science denier cannot be reasoned with......but as for the "hand outs", 45% of African Americans live below middle class, 22% live in poverty and the just 9% of whites who live in poverty have "hand outs" available to them as well. As far as black scholarships go, college costs big money. The median net worth of whites is $171,000 and that of blacks is 17,000.
    No, read it again.
    And I was trying to point the change in the urban landscape, where the go-to to get something to eat is the 7 11, Dollar Store and Mc D now that the mom and pop grocers are gone.
     
  18. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Yours. You are the one talking about stress and race.

    Reality is my source.
     
  19. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    The mom and pop grocer are gone because people prefer the dollar store and McDonalds
     
  20. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Society and/or the victim.

    "Right wingers" are actually agree on all the premises with left wingers. They too are collectivists, altruists and determinists. Their solution too is more government .

    I suggest individual rrsponsibility and punishments that match the crime in question.
     
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  21. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    And because government has imposed regulations and high taxes making it impossible to start a small business.
     
  22. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    None of that in any way wakes up for 13% of americans committing almost half of the murders, and 81% of all violent crime. That's right, none of your excuses can wash away the numbers. I guess that statistics denial.
     
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  23. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    In other words you deny the science behind the stress related changes in children's brain development and the resulting increased possibility of poor self regulation, decreased ability to concentrate, aggression and addictions later in life. The result would sabotage learning, healthy relationships and being a productive member of society. You reject it on ideological grounds, not evidence.
    Nope, science wants to fix the problem before a crime is committed. The right likes to say they need to act responsibly but when it comes to helping them be responsible they start crying about big gubnent. Incarceration hast been an expensive bad teacher.
    No, it is because poor people buy what costs least. If the Dollar Store can undercut the prices of non-perishables at the mom and pop store, the mom and pop store will lose its profit margin and go out of business. Its called capitalism.
    Again with the racist accusation that all African Americans (13%) commit half the murders. Statistics are not your forte.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  24. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    As I have already mentioned, it is quite easy to look at crime and deduce that there is indeed a "criminal type". Not in a determinst way suggesting that it is something one is born with, but rather in the form of a set of traits that are best described as weaknesses. Low impulse control, no respect for authority and others, high time preference, anti-intellectualism (as in anti-learning) and unwillingness to work on- and improve oneself.

    All of these characteristics are the result of choice - A choice not to improve oneself and a choice to break the law. A choice to let oneself be guided by impulses. A choice to fall for peer-pressure in childhood. To the extent this personality can be linked to bad parenting, bad parenting too is a choice. The sad part here is that no child chooses their parents, but it is still possible to break free from bad parents.

    The so called "criminal mastermind" is largely a Hollywood fiction because the typical criminal is an unintelligent and unperceptive clodpoll.

    "Experts" are in bed with this criminal as they feed his resentment for authority by blaming his behaviour on "society" in the form of "structures" and the type of culture he consumes glorfies his life choices. Additionally, the "experts" help him further by washing him clean from blame not only by blaiming "society", but also by being against stricter punishments and introducing "science" that says stress and lack of veggies is what causes someone to cold-bloodedly rape an innocent woman or rob his local corner store. If anyone points a finger at the criminal, the "expert" is quick to come to his rescuse with their fingerpointing and smears and a lollipop for the criminal to suck on. "Experts" and criminals are both anti-reality. "The expert" would describe the dull cretine that is a criminal with compliments such as "unafraid and unconventional".

    It is no wonder society has failed to deal with crime. "The experts" and "science" you keep referring to have been listened to for ages now, but nothing has changed. It is obvious most of them have no credibility whatsoever.

    Where I am, the most popular "expert explanation" for crime has been "lack of after-school activities"; that is the intellectual level of the "experts'" conclusions.

    Criminals have crime as their career and a career is a choice. Easy as that.Period.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
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  25. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    No it is because the prefer a $1 frozen pizza over a 25 cent banana.
     
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