How does a secular or atheist person get a religious and / or spiritual experience?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by wgabrie, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Another reason I will probably never eat cubensis again, I used to eat stupid large doses, my experiences on it ranged from the mystical to the downright hellish. While i feel it was ultimately beneficial it was a very hard meal to "digest".
     
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  2. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    For god hated his son so much, he needlessly had him murdered.

    For god hated his creation so much that he used genocide to hide his incompetence in creating.

    Stop lying to us via your book of myths.

    You are trying to make Jesus seem quite immoral. Stop it.

    On Jesus dying for you. Try to think in a moral way.

    It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.

    You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.

    It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

    You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

    Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

    Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

    Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

    There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.

    Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh.

    Regards
    DL
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
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  3. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    There is another way to approach God.

    “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes
    him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged
    but has crossed over from death to life."__The Lord Jesus
    in John 5:24

    " , , ,God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ
    , , , God was reconciling the world to himself in
    Christ, not counting people’s sins against them . . .
    We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to
    God.

    God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so
    that in him we might become the righteousness of
    God." 2 Corinthians chapter 5

    _________________


    Millions have prayed this simple prayer below from
    the heart and their entire world was turned upside
    down for the better , , ,

    "Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for
    Your forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins
    and rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and
    invite You to come into my heart and life. I want
    to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior"
    __from the Billy Graham Crusades

    Best.

    JAG


    ``
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  4. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm.... curious, considering God knows all, does his assuming human form to die on the cross constitute willful suicide, or
    Knowing as God, and being all powerful, dying on the cross is no real sacrifice for his self, then isn’t that a bit of deception on his part?
    And, since God is the architect of the Original sin cast as an evil spell among the decedents of the first couple, being it was his run, couldn’t he have just erased original sin without the theatrics?
    Oh... the mysteries of man.
     
  5. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    The Bible teaches there is one God manifest in Three Persons.
    Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
    ___
    The Father is not the Son.
    The Father is not the Holy Spirit
    ____
    The Son is not the Father.
    The Son is not the Holy Spirit
    ___
    The Holy Spirit is not the Father
    The Holy Spirit is not the Son.

    _______________


    The Father sent His Son to die for the sins of the human race and
    that act of love was not suicide.

    ``
    Thee is no reason to believe that it was not a real sacrifice and
    every reason to believe that it was a real sacrifice and that the
    death of His Son on the Cross hurt the Father as much or MORE
    than it hurt the Son -- the Father's hurt was the same as your hurt
    would be if you saw your dearest loved one crucified by being
    nailed to a cross made from wood. Would that hurt you?
    How would that effect you emotionally?

    Seriously think about that for a minute. How would that effect
    you emotionally? If you had to witness your dearest loved one
    have nails driven through his hands and feet and be nailed
    to a piece of wood that was high up in the air and you had to
    watch him hang there in agony for some 6 hours? How would
    that effect YOUR emotions?

    Also you are refusing to believe in His Son --- refusing to
    believe in spite of the strong emotional hurt that the Father
    experienced because He loved you -- you are saying no to
    that love , , "for God so loved the world that He gave His one
    and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish
    but have Eternal Life , , John 3:16 , , ,
    , , , , , John 3:16
    {1} believe and get Eternal Life
    {2} refuse to believe and perish
    It was fallen humanity that was the architect of the original sin,
    and not God.
    With regard to what God could have done -- we are not supposed
    to set ourselves up as The Judge of God Almighty, This is NOT
    our rightful job and those that do that will be held accountable for
    it at The Judgment on Judgement Day.

    The wise man will take sin and its remedy deadly serious because
    the God that created you takes sin and its remedy deadly serious.
    You will bear what His Son bore on the Cross. He died in your place
    and He took your punishment and if you refuse to believe in Him you
    will have to pay for your own sin.

    "What God did at Calvary was like a Judge who rightly sentenced someone
    for their crimes and then paid the penalty Himself."___Selected

    Christ died for your sins. He bore the penalty so you would not have
    to bear it. If you say no to that -- you will bear the punishment for
    your own sins. See Romans 5:1


    All those in their 80's who die from natural causes and who live to
    be say age 90 --- will find out in about 120 months if God actually
    takes sin and its remedy seriously and they will have their answers to
    the "mysteries" of man.

    Thought For Today , , ,
    "At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise
    you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden
    these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little
    children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do."
    ___The Lord Jesus in Luke 10:21

    JAG

    ``
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  6. Have at it

    Have at it Banned

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    You know what's interesting is, Christianity is the only major religion that there God came and was humiliated and crucified.
     
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    While the OR measure is somewhat limited, it shows a direction:

    Link: Magic mushroom ballot measure in OR
     
  8. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Their only hope is.a NDE.

    When I used to go to church it was to be around people that were less likely to be indecent bastards. Not for a religious awakening.

    Why would an atheist or non believer go to church?
     
  9. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know an atheist who changed his mind after doing DMT a few times, a heroic dose.
     
  10. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know an atheist who changed his mind after doing DMT a few times, a heroic dose.
     
  11. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Just so you all know, I started this thread on a whim. This isn't really about me specifically, I just knew it would bring up a conversation with different viewpoints. That was my real goal.
     
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  12. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LSD turned me into an.agnostic.. 50 years ago.
     
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  13. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Get off the fence.
     
  14. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its the only honest place to be.
     
  15. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. You cant prove invisible space aliens aren't hiding in your porridge. So its only honest to admit that and be agnostic about it. They could be in there, plotting against you.
     
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  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    same way most Christians do, they have empathy, not even most Christians go to church anymore
     
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    why is the peyote religion banned for non-Indians, how we supposed to get our religious experiences - seems racist to only allow one race to practice a religion
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that is why they are banned, they work
     
  19. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    We do without. Its not a huge sacrifice.
     
  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A rather gifted young friend of mine online, (actually we were debating opponents but we were polite to each other).... told me that I had a Grandfather Complex......
    I pled guilty to that accusation!
     
  21. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    .
    No, bans were created for a myriad of reasons, non having to do with the religious experience. Mind that the ban on hallucinogenics is not a universal, there are places outside the US you can still acquire and use them. For instance in South America use continues of Ayahuasca, Banisteriopsis caapi, and Psychotria viridis, among others and in Europe, there is still used, hembane, datura, mushrooms (many places in the world the are still used)... and then there are the less familiar, Saliva, Jimsonweed (datura), poppyseed, morning glory seeds and even those derived from insects, animals and fish. Lots out there, though, many can give you a permanent introduction to the supernatural if you don’t know what you are doing... part of the ancient role of Shamans, having the knowledge. Nausea is often associated with peyote ingestion, in part due to improper preparation; some parts of a button contain small concentrations of strychnine that need to be removed, though some advocates suggest the nausea experience heightens the spiritual experience... didn’t for me, the poison removed as a much better experience.
    In December/Jan I had pneumonia and one of the treatments I was give was a powerful dose of an antibiotic called Lecofloacin that resulted in some off the scale, wild hallucinations. Whether the antibiotic or hypoxia (my O2 level was measured at 4% at one point resulting in immediate rush to emergency care), I can’t be sure, but the effects were interesting but scary as well; No religious type experience, but was interesting to see/feel the amazing neuropathy effects (no second taker here).
    In the Middle Ages, ergot a fungus found in long stored wheat was reported to have caused mass hallucinations (mass hysteria) in Medieval villages in Europe... the fungus LSD was originally synthesized from.
    Hallucinogenics have been used throughout history, often associated with spiritual use with some speculating them partially being a factor in the rise of religious belief in many parts of the world.
     
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  22. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Crucified specifically? Yes. But plenty of historical religions have stories of gods who died and were reborn.
     
  23. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Not worth the time to address, our epistemological frames are do different that it would be a fool’s errand to attempt reconciling them and discuss your post rationally from a common base of rationality. Enjoy your truth.
     
  24. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    The title of a new thread.
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Christians did ban the use due to fears that they competed with their religion, yes, there are other reasons, but that is a big one

    there is a reason only Indians can practice the Peyote religion, Christians did not want the religion to spread
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020

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