Sanders Coup Attempt Against Biden

I deliberately avoided Vietnam and Thailand, they are 3rd world countries and I have zero trust in the data they provide... do they even test? how accurate, who audits their test results?

And yes, this absolutely is cultural, lest we forget that Asian countries went through several pandemics in the last couple of decades and that experience does count.

With compliant population no lockdown is needed, with non-compliant western population these lockdowns are meaningless, which was my point from the get go, there is not really that much Trump or Biden or Merkel or Macron or anyone else could have done under the circumstances and that's why results between these very politically diverse western countries are virtually indistinguishable.

 

Huh?

The most recognizable and notable Progressives in the U.S. may be a bit anti-semitic, but they are not white supremacists.

 

So you have my thoughts on Progs. Now for the Lefty (or Far Lefty, as I'm usually categorised):

Someone whose political interest is limited to the material empowerment of the masses via their own hand. Ground up stuff. Not interested in identity politics, culture wars, race, creed, religion, partisan politics, or any other first world indulgence which takes focus from food in mouths. Hates the Welfare State for its disempowerment of the masses. For reference look to late 20thC anarchist sentiment. That was the last of the legitimate and useful politics on this side of the line. Now just a sell-out to capitalists looking for street cred and alleviation of the guilt that goes with their profligate lifestyles (carefully stage-managed by globalist multi-billionaires, obviously).

 

I have friends and relatives in both countries, and they're long term residents. The figures are absolutely true. They've both done amazingly well.

Yes, that's exactly my point. When the populace isn't voluntarily compliant, you need tough restrictions. That's what we had to do here, because while more compliant than Americans and Europeans (thanks to Asian influence), we're still pig-headed 'westerners'.

 

Most people generically call anyone left of center "Liberals", but they definitely have pronounced factions today which because quite visible when the Progressives organized and started knocking incumbent Liberal Democrats out of their Congressional seats. That split is the topic of the thread.

The battle is about to get loud. How many years or election cycles before the Progressives destroy the Liberals in the party? Or do they split off into a totally separate party, which would give Republicans a definite advantage.

The major split started during the Obama administration. His rhetoric was very Progressive but his actions were very DINO. He ripped the party's fabric and left them wanting to go two different directions.

(....and somehow the division on the left is Trump's fault, even though he was off producing The Apprentice at the time. LOL)





https://www.wsj.com/articles/charles-murray-the-trouble-isnt-liberals-its-progressives-1404170419

 

She's no Prog. If she's saying she is it's an agenda for 'other' stuff. Progressives are almost exclusively white and not poor.

 

The financiers probably are and so they are possibly putting these girls up front as tokens, or the useful idiots who will sell the Progressive plank to the public. It is a good front. There are male (and white male) Progressives, but they are kept in the background, not under the spotlight. The Progressive girls of color can pull the race and sex cards as a defense against any criticism of the Progressive Agenda. They can divert attention away from the ideology or policy platform. Men of color only have one card. White male Progressives have no cards, except as "allies".

 

With each passing year so far this century, the Left has become more and more the party of the global capitalist. And their useful idiots are the less wealthy (though not poor enough to be 'deplorable') and equally capitalist first world salaryman. The type who attends climate protests, then books an overseas holiday on a ****ing jet. The type who sneer at folk who live in the boonies and/or don't know what a machiatto is.

 

Well, that's my point too , touch restrictions (unrealistic in the US/Europe in the first place due to their de-centralized multi-state/multi-government nature) have huge negative side effects (psychological, economic, substance abuse, children educational and other issues), are not guaranteed to completely rid the country of the virus and once they are lifted the virus will start spreading again. the population will still remain non-compliant, you know

 

That is the outcome. Make the masses equally poor. That is "equality of outcome". No more capitalism means all wealth is in government. If you're going for pure Socialism/Marxism/Communism, you definitely want to be a "democratically elected" government official....that's where all the money and luxury ends up.

Communism for the 99%. Capitalism for the "elected" one-party government officials.

 

Good; most Americans are overweight as it is. Perhaps the level of diabetes type II will be reduced and other issues abated as well.

 

A Progressive and a Liberal? ....or simply what happens at the end of the war?

 

Except it won't be anything like collectivism (which is what communism fundamentally is). Collectivism empowers the masses, and that's the last thing they want. They want an aristocrat class and a peasant class and nothing in between.

Edited to add that their relentless drive to prevent ordinary citizens from owning property in Progressive stronghold cities, is a key step. They want everyone life renters. A life renter is fundamentally powerless.

 

Property ownership is a form of capitalism. I'm certainly in favor of that.

Hard to pin down your ideology. You say some things which sound quite conservative and capitalist, and some things which sound rather collective and pro-communist.

So many ideologies have been redefined from original meanings, so one person can say Liberal, Progressive or even Conservative, and have a different definition in mind than the definition of the reader/listener. Redefining words and phrases which used to be commonly understood is part of Post-modern Progressivism though. The creation of civil chaos is a necessary first step.

 

It's what happens when plenty and safety are as expected as sunrise. Every civilisation which becomes that safe and well fed ends up killing itself.

The interesting thing is the origins of the term 'bonfire of the vanities' dates to the 15thC, when a priest grew frustrated with the self-indulgence of the upper classes, and wanted to burn their art, fashion, luxury furnishings, etc etc. But when Tom Wolfe used the term for his title he was referring to Wall Street greed in the 1980's, from the point of view of the ostensible Leftist. That shows you the role reversal was underway even then ... given the 1980's Lefty saw financiers as the problem, while remaining oblivious to their own self-indulgent interest in the very things that 15thC priest was protesting.

 

That's because I'm not an ideologist. I'm old school, interested only in actual politics. Boils down to: does it advance the human and planetary condition? If yes, I like it. If no, it's not for me.

Expanding on that last ... I'm personally for voluntary collectivism upon private property, within the context of a capitalist democracy. I've lived that life for decades, and plan on continuing for the remainder of my life (in fact just this past hour I decided to buy another property. Further adaptation to the changing times, and more land for the collective!).

I'm also VERY opposed to a Welfare State. Strictly 'work to eat' here. No free lunches for anyone but the very young, the very old, and the temporarily sick.

 

While I agree with you in many of the above (e.g. I was never for impeachment; I think that elections have consequences, and once Trump won, he won, and the way to get him out is to vote him out, not a partisan impeachment), those are not existential threats to democracy because they are constitutional instruments, while Trump's non-stop flirting with postponing elections, getting a third term, not accepting the results of election, claiming bogus fraud, clearly planning to try to subvert the result of the election through biased courts, and asking for the indictment and incarceration of his political enemies, comes straight from the playbook of dictatorships like the Philippines and whatnot. Yes, the Dems exaggerated in their attempts to unseat Trump but the system has resisted and the constitutional provisions worked as usual (impeachment went through the House but removal failed in the Senate). Now, what Trump often talks of doing goes beyond the Constitution and goes around the system. A third term? Admiring Xi's status of president for life? Threatening to refuse to relinquish power if he doesn't win the election? Whoa.

Yes, in my opinion, despite the fact that I don't like what the Dems do either, currently I think that Trump's Party (the G.O.P. is now merely his rubber stamp) is a bigger threat to American democracy. We'll see. If he loses the election and gracefully concedes, then I'll be proven wrong. In this case I actually WANT to be proven wrong, but I'm concerned.

 

I think Antifa and BLM are Bernies people. They know their actions make Democrats look bad and don’t give a damn because the party left them without a voice by suppressing their candidate who had a real shot. Twice!
They intimidate other democrats, which forces them to comply. The internal party struggle already produced an ugly result - supposedly moderate Biden. They aren’t bothered by censorship because when they tried to play fair the old guard in the D party cheated against them.

They are a large group of people without a voice. These people should just start their own party - this invasion of the Democratic Party makes them all look like idiots.

 

LOL, come on, you can't possibly be serious about this, your posts on COVID were serious and well thought out but this is frankly utter MSM propaganda and fake news, I can't believe you'd fall for it.

The 3rd term was an obvious joke, the context of the transfer of power has always been that it's contingent on verifiable evidence of Trump's defeat (which in light of the Dems themselves not accepting the results of 2016 election, suing, bullying electors etc should be quite understandable)... and in case you have not noticed, Trump always speaks highly of all people he negotiates with, especially before the negotiations and if these negotiations go well. It's just his style to establish a rapport with the opposite side. He is a businessman, not a politician, remember? C'mon man!

 

Antifa and BLM are definitely Marxist/Anarchists and they are the Far-Far-Far-Far-Far Left. They might even consider Far Left Progressives to be conservative fascists. LOL

The young freshmen Progressive Congressmen started out looking like idiots because they are still wet behind the ears. What is interesting is seeing some of the senior Congressmen strongly supporting the Progressive movement. Ed Markey is not surprising, but Elizabeth Warren evolving into a Progressive is rather interesting. I think she was a Republican at some point before entering politics.

Will Warren get a seat on the Biden cabinet, or is Biden really going to shove the Progressives back into the corner and install Republican RINO's?





https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...gnaling-bigger-ideological-battle-if-n1244652

"Truce" and "Opening salvo" are interesting word choices. Sounds like war!!!!

 

Fair enough; like I said, you are under no obligation to have noticed my humble posting history. But as a professional in this area, I've thoroughly demonstrated my knowledge of this issue.

Anyway, if you were to go way back to a thread I authored calling myself one of the last undecided posters, you'd see that I lavishly praised Trump for the Warp Speed initiative, and at the time I wanted to reward him with my vote, for this very reason. Later I soured on him, given that his persistent undermining of sensible measures to contain the virus undid the good, in my mind. Then, like I said in a response to LoneStarGal somewhere up there or in some other thread, I became progressively less impressed with the Warp Speed initiative as both some companies that didn't partake in it (e.g. Pfizer/BioNTech - they plain declined to accept Warp Speed funding for the development phase of their BNT162 vaccine, although they will accept funding for purchase/distribution if their vaccine is approved) and some countries that have nothing to do with it (e.g. Russia, and China/Brazil) came up with faster and apparently better vaccines than the ones still working through the ropes in the Warp Speed effort (like Moderna's and AstraZeneca's, both kind of delayed and unproven). This is not to say I don't value what he did there, and I did praise him for it. It's just that it doesn't seem as essential as I once thought, given that initiatives that went around it seem to actually have been more successful.

Some unpublished consensus has been building among experts that the CoronaVac (the joint effort between Chinese biotech company Sinovac and Brazilian research institute and vaccine maker Instituto Butantan) is actually the safest and most efficacious of all Covid-19 vaccine candidates to date, and it is practically ready already, and has been already distributed to hundreds of thousands in China, and Brazil is about to jump into production (the factory has been built and is functional; they will supply the local market and will sell to other South American countries, as long as their idiotic president Bolsonaro doesn't put a wrench in it; he is trying to, but is being sued in their Supreme Court for trying to stop the effort - a good thing is that Instituto Butantan is a state organization, not a federal one, and the governor of the state that owns the Butantan is 100% on board, so the moronic president may be unable to stop them). It is made using the true and tried method of inactivated virus. It has phenomenal immunogenicity and an extremely low side effect profile and doesn't need ultra-cold temperatures for distribution and storage. It looks like a true winner. I say unpublished because obviously nobody has done blind studies comparing different vaccines; it's not the time for that yet; the effort now is focused (as it should be) in getting through phase 3 for each vaccine), but I do have insider access to some preliminary observations from colleagues in countries that are dealing with multiple platforms, and they seem to endorse the CoronaVac above others like the AZD1222 by Oxford/AstraZeneca, the Pfizer/BioNTech, and the Sputinik V.

Newsflash: the CoronaVac has nothing to do with the Warp Speed initiative.

Chances are excellent that the CoronaVac will get widespread mass-vaccination campaigns in several countries (not here, though, because we're supposed to be anti-China, haha), way ahead of the unproven mRNA vaccines that have been favored by the Warp Speed initiative, and the less unproven (but rich in side effects) adenovirus vector ones.

Sure, the Warp Speed initiative is ultimately a good thing but it is not excluded that the initiative backed the wrong horses. We'll see. I do like the recombinant nanoparticle (protein subunit) vaccine NVX-CoV2373 being developed by Novavax but it is farther behind and only recently started phase 3. One of its assets is the proprietary plant-based adjuvant that has already shown efficacy in the company's flu shot. This one did get Warp Speed funding (but actually seemed to be doing just fine without it, being already funded by CEPI (the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations headquartered in Norway and founded by Bill Gates) and being sponsored by the Australian government. I actually expect more from it than from the mRNA and adenovirus ones. I've read the phase 1 and 2 papers (when available) for most of the main candidates, and the CoronaVac and the NVX-CoV2373 are the ones that in my opinion have looked best.

And then, don't think that the Warp Speed initiative is entirely kosher either. See the case of the BNT162, by Pfizer/BioNTech. The initiative committed 1.95 billion dollars to a purchase intention contract with the company AFTER it is approved (like I said, the company didn't want to get R&D funding because they didn't want to be pegged to a sales discount). OK, then, we committed this money... if the FDA approves it, automatically we'll have to disburse it... but did we know at the time that the product needs to be distributed at minus 90 degrees Fahrenheit and stored at minus 70? Can you imagine the huge infrastructure and expenses that this will entail, not to forget, the vaccine risks spoiling if at some point in the cold chain the temperature is not properly maintained? I mean, if we HAVE to acquire the doses under contractual obligation, then we'll HAVE to engage in the extreme cold chain too, right? And some more billions and more logistic nightmares will ensue.

Meanwhile the CoronaVac doesn't need that... and looks more efficacious and safer than the BNT162...

So we could simply have bought it from China, right? We'd have it faster and cheaper and would distribute it faster to the population, with predictably great results. Uh, no. That wouldn't be politically convenient for Trump. How would he continue to blame China and to hammer Biden for not being as harsh on China if he tried to solve the "WuFlu" and the "Chinese Virus" crisis he likes so much to yell about in his rallies... if he purchased a Chinese solution? LOL. And how would he claim credit for the Warp Speed if he ended up purchasing a vaccine developed outside of it? So the CoronaVac is out, for Americans...

 

Progressives won't succeed with any of this. They aren't that powerful and don't have much leverage after November 3rd.

 

The public screaming will be fun though. The media will love it, as the red meat arguments between Dems and Progs will be all the media has left to focus on to keep their ratings up, and media profits. The Democrat Party is going to look like the total mess that it is as soon as Biden is in office.

 

Again, Borat, I very much hope that you are correct. There's little that motivates me more to be wrong, than this. I do very much want to be wrong about it. All that I'm saying is that I'm concerned. And no, it's not MSM stuff. I pay very little attention to the MSM. What concerns me is the rush to confirm Barrett before 11/3 and Trump's explicit words (including in his town hall, recently) that he wants her there because if there is fraud he wants it settled by the SCOTUS. C'mon man, I'd say to you too. Do you actually believe that there will be fraud? Why is Trump insisting on this? Have you noticed one of these days, the Chairman of the Pennsylvania Republican Party saying that he discussed with the Trump campaign ways to - if there is fraud, their eternal excuse although there's not evidence of any significant federal election fraud - get the Pennsylvania Secretary of State to appoint unfaithful delegates to the EC that would vote for Trump regardless of the Pennsylvania popular votes result, or to challenge it all in court and send the election to the House as uncertifiable? The House has 26 GOP delegations... they'd prevail. The simple fact that this is being floated around, concerns me. Comments like "Stand back AND STAND BY" are not very reassuring either...

 

Both parties are messes. Yes, there will be strident whining... but still, progressives are not more than 15% of all Americans. They are a minority that will always be thoroughly rejected by voters, in the foreseeable future. At some point they will be more powerful, but thankfully we're not there, yet.

Again, LoneStarGal, I told you over and over. If Biden truly were the puppet of the far left that you seem to believe he is, they wouldn't be bracing for a fight. They know fully well that Biden doesn't intend to fulfill his vague promises to them... that Biden for now is interested in keeping their voters in the flock... but there is no guarantee that he'll be as sympathetic when elected, which is why they are already starting the strident protestation.