How does a secular or atheist person get a religious and / or spiritual experience?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by wgabrie, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,035
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I read your post. Five Bible passages can be applied
    to your condition and your situation and here they are , , , ,

    ____________________________________________


    You will have to become like a little child in order
    to ever be able to understand spiritual truths.

    Luke 10:21
    "At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit,
    said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth,
    because you have hidden these things from the wise
    and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes,
    Father, for this is what you were pleased to do."
    ___The Lord Jesus

    God deliberately hides spiritual truths from the "wise and
    learned" --- but He reveals them to people who humble
    themselves and become like little children.


    _______________________________________________


    You must have the Holy Spirit in order to understand
    spiritual truths.

    1 Corinthians 2:14
    "The person without the Spirit does not accept the
    things that come from the Spirit of God but considers
    them foolishness, and cannot understand them because
    they are discerned only through the Spirit."
    __The Apostle Paul

    This is why you consider the message of the Cross to
    be foolishness or untrue and not worth your time to
    address.


    _______________________________________________


    Note the bolded red below:

    1 Corinthians 1:18-25
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those
    who are perishing
    , but to us who are being saved
    it is the power of God

    . For it is written:
    “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
    the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”


    Where is the wise person? , , , , Where is the philosopher
    of this age?

    Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

    For since in the wisdom of God the world through its
    wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through
    the foolishness of what was preached to save those
    who believe.


    Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
    but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block
    to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

    but to those whom God has called, both Jews and
    Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of
    God.

    For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom,
    and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength."
    __The Apostle Paul

    _______________________________________________


    If you are wise you will pray that you are one of those
    that has been given to the Son by the Father.

    John 6:37
    "All those the Father gives me will come to me, and
    whoever comes to me I will never drive away"
    The Lord Jesus



    ____________________________________________



    If you are wise you will fervently pray that you are one
    that will be drawn to the Son --- drawn by the Father.

    John 6:43-44
    "“Stop grumbling among yourselves, ”Jesus answered.
    “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent
    me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last
    day."___The Lord Jesus


    ___________________________________________


    It is never too late, as long as there is life, for a man to
    repent and change his mind about accepting the Lord
    Jesus as his Savior. Just pray, from the heart, this simple
    prayer , ,


    "Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for
    Your forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and rose
    from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to come
    into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my
    Lord and Savior. In Your Name. Amen."
    __from the Billy Graham Crusades

    Untold millions have prayed such a prayer and their lives were
    turned upside down for the better. Think seriously about your
    eternal soul. What shall it profit a man, asked the Lord Jesus,
    if he gains the whole world, yet loses his own soul?

    Best Regards.

    JAG

    `


    `
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  2. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    While your intention was positive it was inevitable that it would be taken advantage of to proselytize by those with an agenda.

    I had a religious upbringing and never once had even an inkling of a spiritual experience and that INCLUDES attending a Billy Graham event.

    After coming to the conclusion that it was a load of snake oil and becoming an atheist instead I have lost count of the spiritual experiences I have had near large bodies of water. Initially they were accompanied by smoking weed but they continued throughout my life even after I stopped.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    Gatewood and Diablo like this.
  3. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    7,238
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope. They only apply in your mind, and protecting them, is no different than declaring you have secret knowledge that gives you some aspect of superiority; fun that you believe that... I’ve no problem that you believe you have that superiority. Lots of people think that they are superior to me. To which I say, ok.
     
    Diablo and Derideo_Te like this.
  4. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,035
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Youi are incorrect. I do not feel superior to you and not to
    anybody else either. Here is how I view myself: I am a
    wretched sinner saved by the pure Grace and Mercy of
    God. There is absolutely NOTHING about me that was
    worth saving. This is what Grace means. Grace means
    "unmerited favor" and my salvation was 100% unmerited.
    I did NOTHING good to earn my salvation. "For by Grace
    are you saved through Faith and this not from yourselves
    it is the GIFT of God -- not of works so that no man can
    boast."

    I have no secret knowledge. You {and all men} can easily
    come to know what I know -- but the path to that is through
    John 3:16 and not through secularism or humanism.

    Best Regards,

    JAG

    ``
     
  5. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    7,238
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The why consume the time with filling a post with quotes from scripture that will never have an impact on me. As I have said more than once our epistemological frames are so different the is no common ground basis for sharing understanding; nothing will change for me, nor for you... so, fool’s errand if you think it might. If your intention is to use me, to reach others, feel free, just do not expect you will trigger a revelation in me. As for others; I don’t speak for them.
    I have had a lot of others try to convince me of their spiritual truths, different flavors of Abrahamic religions, Asian beliefs, tribal animism beliefs, Mayan beliefs, atheists and new age types. The two that are the most intolerant are of Abrahamic belief systems and ridged Atheists. I say the same thing, believe what you want, just don’t expect me to follow, nor any quotes from scripture do anything regarding me but be self serving. My friend, the priest, almost always give me his blessing when we part, what he figures is his duty. As lost as I am, he still maintains our friendship, though he has given up his proselytizing of me.
     
  6. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    10,619
    Likes Received:
    2,045
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To answer a question with a question...

    In the Bible, old testament, God is everywhere. Smite this, pestilence that, bang a virgin here and there. But, in all those appearances, home many were in a church? And when God communicated through a third party, you know, angels, burning bush, talking lion, how many of those occurred in church?

    Just an observation but it seems that God and his minions don't spend a lot of time in church.
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  7. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    7,238
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If someone told me they observed a burning, talking bush conveying a revelation, my first question would be... which hallucinogenic did you consume? The Guahibo Shaman I knew had lots of things speak to him... his medium was Banisteriopsis caapi, more powerful,, IMO, than Peyote or mushrooms.
     
  8. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,035
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    83
    You do not know the Scriptures will never have an impact
    on you. The supernatural power of the Sovereign God has
    regenerated many a soul that was convinced that he would
    never be converted. As long as there is life "God is in play"
    and He can "break in upon you" with good things leading to
    faith in His Son the Lord Jesus as your Savior.
    You don't know that to be true, change for you could start today
    or tomorrow. You are dealing here with the God who created
    Andromeda and this Universe and if He gets ready for you
    and if you belong to Him, He both can and will "bring you to
    your knees" in humility and repentance. No mere human being
    frail and weak has the power to resist God Almighty.
    I am trying to reach you. I am not using you. I have you in mind
    when I write posts to you -- you are NOT my "sounding board."
    You have a soul and you have a good mind -- and it will be a
    shame and a deep tragic event if you perish as per John 3:16
    I know that I will not do that. How do I know? Because that is
    the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit and not the work of
    a mere human worm like me. I have zero power to convert
    you to Faith in Christ as your Savior -- but God Almighty
    does have the power to do that.
    That's the differ4ence in me and them -- i do not try to "convince"
    you of anything -- instead I present the gospel to you and I wait
    for the Holy Spirit to do His supernatural work within the human
    soul. It is the power of God -- the supernatural power of God --
    that does ALL the convincing.
    Regarding the Abrahamic Faiths , ,
    Christianity
    Islam
    Judaism , , ,
    , , yes agreed these 3 are the most intolerant because they
    all believe in One God who is Lord over all -- and they are
    all correct on this one aspect of their faith. There really is only
    one God and He will be exalted in the Earth here in the
    world of men.

    Regarding atheists: There is no such thing as an atheist -- all
    men know there is a God.
    I don't expect anything from you. You are in the hands of Almighty
    God and He is in charge of your life and you are not in charge of
    your life. All that you have and all that you do is given to you by
    the God that created you -- like the Lord Jesus told Pilate, you
    would have no power over me unless it was given to you from
    Heaven.
    You don't understand the supernatural power of God that works
    through His word , , read this bolded red below , , ,


    8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
    declares the Lord.

    9“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.
    10As the rain and the snow
    come down from heaven,
    and do not return to it
    without watering the earth
    and making it bud and flourish,
    so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
    11so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
    It will not return to me empty,
    but will accomplish what I desire
    and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

    Isaiah chapter 55

    Good man that priest.

    As well he should do that. I like him.

    But I NEVER will give up on that.

    By the way, the word "proselytizing" has been absurdly
    commandeered by some hostile atheists in their effort to
    shut down evangelism
    and make it appear to be a bad
    thing. The knowledgeable Christian will gladly and
    with bold determination fully embrace so-called
    proselytizing and proclaim the gospel boldly and with
    gusto.

    Best Regards,

    JAG

    PS
    What is the power of God that can bring salvation?

    "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God
    that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew,
    then to the Gentile. For in the gospel the righteousness of God
    is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,
    just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”
    Romans chapter 1


    ``
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  9. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    10,619
    Likes Received:
    2,045
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not talking about Moses' habits.

    Just pointing out that in all the stories the "religious experiences" occurred outside church. So...
     
  10. undertheice

    undertheice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,260
    Likes Received:
    1,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    what the hell is a spiritual experience? i think this is the question that should be asked first. personally, i've never had what i would call a spiritual experience, but i have had moments of clarity. i am a great advocate of the use of hallucinogenic substances and have found many of those "moments of clarity" through their use, but they are only a tool and what i consider my greatest revelation came without the use of such substances. can you look at yourself dispassionately? can you look at the world, realizing that "this is really messed up", and understand that it simply doesn't matter? this is what it takes to find the "moment". the religious use their faith to get past the horror of reality. some people use meditation to simply bypass the outside world and concentrate solely upon themselves. i don't know if either of these things work, but they would seem to merely replace one set of distractions with another.
     
    Gatewood likes this.
  11. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    Messages:
    15,854
    Likes Received:
    11,608
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good question, a dead universe doesn't care.
     
  12. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Religious experiences mostly consist of doing something religious, feeling some emotions, and interpreting that as the supernatural. The same thing can be accomplished for an atheist by doing drugs, having a near death experience, having a positive emotional experience, or watching an emotional movie specifically.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your definition of secular is off. One can be Religious and Secular at the same time. Secular is just having law not based on religious belief.

    Just because one is religious .. does not mean one favors theocracy.
     
  14. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I disagree.

    Who is the believer to put above his god?

    Many have spoken of the mental conflict in theists who want a free world here, yet crave the tyranny of Yahweh's heaven.

    Regards
    DL
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There is a difference between 1) Having a belief - and 2) forcing that belief on others through physical violence (Law) - you are not appreciating this distinction.
     
  16. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    317
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    A religious experience can be any type of heart felt warm goodness towards others/mankind.. This is a religious experience.. when a person who is more into the hedonism ways of self has the experience of looking toward another less hedonistic and wanting a true goodness for their life... present/future/posterity; etc.... an experience of 'goodness' that might not have been experienced before. A life and an experience is/are not the same.
     
  17. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    47,624
    Likes Received:
    48,666
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The easiest is to 'roll one's own' via a study of Taoism. You can approach it as a religion -- in which case you have to deal with all sorts of normal religious baggage OR you can approach it as sort of a philosophy that merely requires self-discipline and a great deal of study to 'get it right'. I was a philosophical Taoist for decades before I gave it all up for cynicism.
     
  18. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    47,624
    Likes Received:
    48,666
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Some of the world's happiest people routinely use halluciongens but then so, too, do many of the unhappiest. It can be . . . tricky.
     
  19. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    47,624
    Likes Received:
    48,666
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not really. I am an atheist who attends Catholic services. I prefer the spiritual cleanliness of atheism. I go to church because I like the rituals and sense of community spirituality . . . especially of Catholicism . . . especially of Anglican-Use Catholicism; which is very conservative in nature. It takes all types in this weird world of ours.
     
  20. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Messages:
    47,624
    Likes Received:
    48,666
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes and no. They are a short cut cheat and the biggest problem is that most people need to put the hard work into practicing their 'faith' or philosophy in order to gain the most by way of personal benefits. Short cut approaches usually end up cheating the user . . . one way or the other. But I don't condemn the approach as it DOES work out quite well for some.
     
  21. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I do the same as agnostic.
     
    Gatewood likes this.
  22. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Deflect much?

    Regards
    DL
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How is explaining a key distinction to you... in relation to the topic under discussion - "Deflection"

    Unsupported accusations are not worth much
     
  24. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No one spoke of forcing beliefs, a hole, and you did not, likely could not, attempt to deal with my question.

    You chose to deflect.

    Regards
    DL
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I spoke about it - and clearly this distinction is lost on you. Regardless - your claim that religious folks necessarily must believe in theocracy loses on the basis of this distinction.

    There is a difference between A) having a Religious Belief and B) Forcing that belief on others through physical violence (Law)
     

Share This Page