Some republicans are suggesting we should 'redo the election'.

This is inane. How do those people buy beer, get on a plane, attend the Democrat convention, visit the capitol or white house, drive a car, travel to Mexico or Canada, maybe even enter a national park? How did those college kids that feel hassled over voter IDs get into college anyway??? If you define getting off your butt and hitching a ride or taking the bus to the DMV as "hassle", then what would you propose to ease the burden of 200 million people who do get and have and renew IDs. Poor babies. IDs were not an issue until Democrats thought they could get more votes by demagoging the ID requirement. Republicans hadn't given it a second's thought just like they don't analyze the sun rise

 

I stand by my original statement.
I repeat this portion:
Historically speaking, IDs were not an issue. when did they become an issue? They became an issue when republicans realized that their base is shrinking, and the only way they could win is to make it more difficult for blacks and college kids to get ids

Here are republican operatives admitting the true reason for IDs

 

I have worked at three Universities and the students were required to have IDs. They each got a student ID when they enrolled. The blacks you are talking about must not have bank accounts, social security cards or drivers license all of those require ID's.

 

This is just the old playground "is too", "am not" argument.

 

Then perhaps you should have checked your own words, ESPECIALLY as applied to the concerns about the actions of our very own Generals (and any other such Institutional "firsts"). While they may personally dislike the what might happen between now and 1/20/21, I have little doubt as to how they may (WILL) respond. They will uphold their oaths, as they should. And while I think it's unlikely, it's still within the realm of what's at least "possible" that Trump's concerns about the the propriety of the election itself may (emphasis on "MAY") turn out to be correct.

Frankly, that sounds quite like what Dems were pushing in 2016, though I find it as unlikely this time around as I did then, but not by as much. But the idea of an election "redo", which is what the OP has suggested is likely, is mostly preposterous, definitely Unconstitutional, and simply will not happen. BUT, as you properly noted, if for some reason it DOES end up in the House, it's a virtual certainty that Trump will actually win reelection because of the one vote per State contingent rule, AND if such doubts actually exist, it is the DUTY of the State's Governors to report such things to the Congress in the first place, and not some sort of dirty trick.

However, having said all of that, the reality is that most people in 2020 are not properly informed as to what is actually contained in our Constitution, especially those under say 30ish or so (maybe even 40ish), mostly because we no longer properly teach such things to students of the proper age. I also doubt most said students and young adults are even aware of the fact that such a vote in the House is even a hypothetical possibility, much less the fact that it actually happened once in the distant past. It's equally true that they are the most likely to react violently to the slightest provocation, which certainly includes the unlikely reelection of Trump, have been primed like putting a fuse into a powder keg full of T&T, and leaving a lit lighter almost, but not quite, close enough to light it. The extra inch required to set it off has been provided by a lifetime of indoctrination by both the media and those allegedly hired to "teach" them.

Which is, at the risking of being repetitive, extremely unlikely. But at the same time I am not be surprised that any possibility of faithless electors or any other such ideas will be fully explored before any concessions of an ultimate loss are made by Trump and team, nor do I blame them for exploring such things. I'm also not sure it matters, as any such concessions would bow to reality if said concerns turn out to be accurate. Just the same as if this or that State is "called" by the press. Them "calling" something doesn't matter a bit if it turns out they're factually wrong.

However, what I find increasingly likely the more time passes is that they'll be unable to certify the democratic slate of electors in PA, which will throw the election into the hands of the Republican controlled State House. Effectively, ruling ALL prior votes of the people null and void, and giving those Republican House members the authority to certify which ever electors they so choose, which will flip PA to the (R) side. And this scenario could result if even a small handful of votes are found to have been illegally cast and/or counted, but those particular votes cannot be accurately segregated from the rest of the ballots.

Anticipating it and using it when "justified" are actually the same thing, since "justified", at least in the way you're using the term, is actually a matter of opinion. In reality it's not, and it's either "justified" or it's not, and opinions don't matter.

 

If he legit lost (and he very well may have) then why are you afraid of a little recount or two? It will only confirm what you claim you already know, assuming your assumption is correct in the first place.

 

Frankly, the position that blacks are either too poor to pay for an ID, too lazy to get one even if they can afford it, or too stupid to even know how to get to the DMV if they wanted to is insulting, and quite racist.

But it's the SOP for leftists near and far, even though they accuse everyone else of being the racists, even other leftists if they deem them "not progressive enough". Which they're already doing to Queen "The rules apply to thee, but not to me" Nancy Pelosi in blaming her for losing seats in this past election. I guess retaining control of the chamber isn't good enough for them.

But nobody calls them out for it.

 

Clearly Trump has a history of being a cry baby calling elections “rigged” if he doesn’t like the results.

2012: "This election was a travesty and a sham!"
2016 primaries: "Ted Cruz didn't win Iowa, he stole it. That is why all of the polls were so wrong and why he got far more votes than anticipated. Bad!"
2016 general election: "The election is absolutely being rigged by the dishonest and distorted media pushing Crooked Hillary - but also at many polling places - SAD!"
Post 2016 election: "In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally!"
2020: "The only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged"

 

I'm not sure what those two things have to do with each other, but JFK would be a Republican today, if you judge by the (R)s platforms and his actions while POTUS. He even was (GASP!!) in favor of across the board tax cuts, including those for (another GASP!!!) dirty, nasty, evil rich people.

I suppose even today a (D) might get away with that, but when an (R) does it, it's "tax cuts for the rich", conveniently ignoring the fact that it was actually tax cuts for everybody. And for their Presidential candidate, also ignoring the fact that repealing those cuts will in fact raise taxes on people making less than $400k, despite repeated promises to do both at the same time, which my calculator says is literally impossible. One way or another his ego has written checks his body can't cash.

 

Great. Then you have absolutely nothing to fear by confirming that to be true, or even a recount or two.

 

I'm surprised there hasnt been a concession at this point.

Any hope it's coming soon?

 

I couldn’t care less if they recount every state.

 

It's over as far as I'm concerned. This was a crazy mixed bag election. It was about getting rid of Trump, but not endorsing the Democrat's agenda at the same time. Biden wins by 5 million votes or there about. But the Republicans were favored down ballot, the Democrats lose house seats, state legislatures and a governorship. If the exit polls are correct, you had around 4,700,000 ticket splitters who voted for Biden, then Republican for down ballot offices.

 

Thanks for a thoughtful response, but actually I don't see anything we're disagreeing about. You seem to be, like me, aware of the avenues that remain for Trump, aware of the 1876 precedent, and aware of the certification issues that might enable the Pennsylvania Republican legislature to ignore the will of the people.

It is true, though, that Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada going for Biden, will make Trump's effort a lot harder, since technically, Biden no longer needs the 20 Pennsylvania EC votes and not even the 16 Michigan votes. Georgia doing a manual recount and confirming the election for Biden, Arizona also being a Red state with Republican officials who are repeatedly giving interviews saying that there is no fraud whatsoever in their state, and these three states so far being quite immune to lawsuits (the Trump team even withdrew one of them in Nevada, realizing it wouldn't change the result), make those EC votes coming from these 3 states look quite ironclad. They are now concentrating in Pennsylvania and Michigan... even if they succeeded in flipping those results, Biden would still have 270 votes. The courts also tossed Trump's efforts to delay certification in Michigan.

I'm less concerned today. I think Trump's uphill battle is steeper than I thought. Even this Pennsylvania legislature thing... might be harder for him to pull off, regardless of the legislature being Republican. It is such a preposterous move, that these politicians will have to face the ire of the people in their reelection campaigns... and politicians think of themselves and their reelections first. Because, see, if Nevada, Georgia, and Arizona hold, the Republican state legislators would be adopting a very politically risky move, for strictly nothing since Biden would still win. Would they be willing to do that? Doubtful.

 

The vastly greater share of those tax cuts went to the rich. Whatever tax cuts the middle and poor received is offset by price increases due to Tariffs. The tax cuts on the rich have to be repealed, specifically ,the alternative minimum tax, and the estate tax (for estates beyond a certain threshold ), It is very possible.

 

Complete nonsense:

And this does not show or include the tremendous tax benefit lower income people got from the expanded child care credit. Your specious argument probably comes from the argument that many low income people did not pay a lower amount of tax, but that is because they didn't pay any tax to begin with. Nor does it reflect the massive increase in the standard deduction which applies almost exclusively to people in the mid to lower income ranges.

 

Doing both those things simultaneously is not possible. Either you vote against Trump, which endorses Biden's agenda, or you vote for Trump even if only to repudiate it.

I myself voted for Trump not so much because I like him (I don't) or even want him reelected (I wish we had an alternative choice that was actually viable, but we don't/didn't), but endorsing Biden's agenda by voting for him smelled worse than reelecting Trump. And don't forget that Biden's agenda is not really what's in play here, it's actually the agenda of whomever is pulling his strings that matters. And that scares me even worse.

That's incorrect. If current trends hold up to all possible challenges, it appears he will lose by 42 votes. Those 5 million don't matter because we don't use a popular vote of all the people to select Electors. And those Electors haven't even cast their ballots yet, which means (in theory anyway) there's a lot of potential things that might happen (but probably won't) to change either the number of votes, or even the outcome of the election as a whole.

This is a valid observation, with many possible explanations, even if we don't know (and likely never will) which possible explanation is correct. Stay tuned though, the next month or so might be interesting to watch.

 

You seem convinced a recount will change the results. The only way that could happen is if Trump cheats in the recount somehow. Are you hoping he cheats?

 

I think this election at the presidential level was all about Trump, not so much about Biden. It turned out to be more a choice of personalities than politics. Especially among independents who don't pay much attention at all to politics until an election approaches and none to the daily grind of politics going on in Washington. In 2016 Independents went to Trump 46-42 with 12% voting third party against both Trump and Clinton. According to CNN exit polls, which aren't final, this year independents went for Biden 54-41 with 5% voting third party. Out of that bunch you had approximately 4.7 million ticket splitters, folks voting for Biden and then Republican for the other offices. Yes, their vote was against Trump, but not really for Biden or his policies.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-results

I think politics, ideology take a back seat to many independent which were just sick and tired of Trump's childish antics and his very unpresidential behavior. That was the case for me. I was fed up with Trump and how he behaved like a four year old spoiled brat with his name calling and temper tantrums. I voted against him, then voted Republican in our two senate races.I wanted Trump to lose, but for the GOP to retain the senate and will once again vote Republican in both Georgia's senate races this January.

As an aside, I think if Trump's personality was more like Reagan's and he behaved more presidential instead of like a wrestler out of the WWE in a pre-fight interview, he would have won reelection easily. It is my opinion Trump's personality lost it for him, not his policies or stances on issues. Actually, the down ballot success of the Republicans might have been an even an endorsement of those policies. Maybe Trump had the right message, but was totally the wrong messenger. we'll see.

 

I agree that Trump was completely the wrong messenger.
I don't disagree with a number of Republican proposals on the economy, but Trump never put forward concise arguments or plans for implementation.
Claiming the "MSM hates me ..." is not a coherent argument for tax reform and
it doesn't help that Trump chased off his entire team that put together his initial tax bill within 6 month of signing it.

 

I don't think Trump has ever had a political ideology. Not of his own. He has changed his stances on the different issues about as many times as he has switched parties. Which is 7 and counting.

Outside of his tax cuts, what major legislation has Trump ever pushed or wanted? As for the MSM and a bunch of other folks hating him, I don't think it was him or his policies so much. It was more his obnoxcious, uncouth, at times raunchy personality and his very unpresidential behavior that doomed any chance for his reelection. At least in my opinion. His ugly, childish traits drove independents away from him into Biden's arms. A 17 point swing away from Trump. He received 5 points less independents votes than in 2016 while Biden received 12 points more than Hillary did. 17 points is one huge swing.

 

Not at all. I don't think that any recount will change the results under any circumstances, even if he does somehow cheat. I do think that he has a stronger chance of changing the results with his lawsuits to delay certification in PA and one or two other States, but even that I think is highly unlikely.

At this point, though, even though I wanted Trump to win (not because I like him personally, I don't, but because I approve of his position on issues more than I do Joe's), it also frightens me if that actually happens. At least two generations of people (say those under 40 or so) have been raised to love leftism, to hate the Constitution (and/or to know nothing about it), and to believe violence is a proper answer to whatever might ail them. I'm very concerned that if anything happens to tilt the election back to Trump, even if it is both legal and Constitutional, will result in those people EXPLODING into the town square (both literal and metaphoric), burning down everything in sight, and not just "punching nazis" but actually killing people.

So I am frankly at a loss as to what to do, or rather what outcome I'd prefer. I can't actually DO anything about anything.

 

Nonsense. I don't know where you live, but people around here don't see any looting, burning, EXPLODING (except at the Bunny Ranch), communists, nazis or anything you mentioned. Just normal folk. From what I've seen lately, the "left" celebrated peacefully and went home. Trump people are doing this.



Yeah, it's those college kid commies we need to fear. Like I said, we apparently see things differently. I don't know where you live. Real peaceful around here. No riots within 500 miles.

 

I think it was Covid. Had that virus not been unleashed on the world, he would have easily won re-election against George Washington raised from the grave himself. But Dems didn't just try to pin the blame on him (unrightfully), they somehow managed to make it stick. Here in FL (a major swing state) virtually every Biden commercial (and they were about 2 out of every 3 spots available to all advertisers) was directly or indirectly blaming Trump for Covid, as if he personally designed the virus and arranged for it to be released.

And it worked.

Perhaps. But you can't vote for Biden and simultaneously repudiate his policies. Like it or not, the position of the American people is now "We endorse Biden's political agenda", whether that's the message they (we) intended to send or not.

 

That's not true.