Can the national debt of the USA be paid off in one year?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by DennisTate, Nov 7, 2020.

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Can the national debt of the USA be paid off in one year?

  1. No

    41 vote(s)
    85.4%
  2. Yes

    4 vote(s)
    8.3%
  3. No.. it will take seven years and Ezekiel chapters forty to forty eight must be prepared for.

    2 vote(s)
    4.2%
  4. By this do you mean that the national debt of the USA is partly a practical joke???????

    1 vote(s)
    2.1%
  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unfair taxation of the poor is rife in the US. Whyzzat?

    Because for the most part those "poor" are the illegal migrants. What do we do about them.

    Well, here in Europe, if you are hiring an illegal alien (meaning who has no residency permit), they shut down your company. Works wonders ...


    This is a sentiment on your part - but, in fact, America is one of the richest countries on this planet.

    Which is why I keep harping about "Income Disparity", which is the economic term for the unfairness.

    From Pew Research here:

    So what is happening? Well, it's been happening for a long time, but nobody seems to recognize the problem in LaLaLand on the Potomac.

    It's a country called China that opened its borders in the 1990s with the intent of selling its cheaper products to the world. Which means that all production that requires skilled manufacturing manpower in both Europe and the US was suddenly confronted by far, far cheaper products flooding into their respective markets. And, though it took about ten-years, they have since largely cornered that market (for comparatively inexpensive produce).

    Nobody saw the handwriting on the wall despite all the complaining. Why? Good question! But that's the way democracy-functions-today in both America and Europe where most of the job-destruction has occurred.

    My Point: "Work" as we define it has multiple levels. We all know that. In our own recent history, the lower-level manufacturing jobs have moved to softer-salary countries.

    What's a country to do? It goes "up-market"! Which means what?

    It means that Tertiary Education must be free, gratis and for nothing if we are to "create" people capable of higher work-levels requiring sharper talents. Yes, quite simply: Our workforce must become smarter and work at higher levels of services-producing jobs.

    And for that to happen, going into a post-secondary educational program (to learn the necessary talents) must be nearly free, gratis and for nothing. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY - WE MUST MAKE THE NECESSARY PUBLIC-INVESTMENTS IN LEARNING HIGH-SKILLED TALENTS and to assure that all can participate the schooling must be very low-cost.

    As I never tire of saying - in Europe, an advanced post-secondary schooling degree costs less than $2000 per year of study. In the US, the same average annual cost is six-times as much - around $14K a year in a state-funded university ... !
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
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  2. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not everyone can earn a college degree, and, as for skilled jobs, there is a little thing called the h2b visa. As well as offshoring tech jobs to India and such.
     
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    NO LONG-TERM JOB SECURITY!

    Everyone can try to obtain an advanced degree IF that degree does not cost an average of $14K a year. As it does presently in the US.

    In Europe, that very same cost is closer to $2K. Why is education key to a good job?

    Because we have seen, since the early 1990s, when China opened itself to foreign markets their domination of low-cost goods. They have literally gutted the US job-market in the production of such goods. The only question worth asking was, "Why did we not see that coming?"

    Because we thought collectively that "the American-way was the only way". Correcting that mistake cost us dearly - whether we live in Europe or the US.

    Long-term unemployment rates in the US have been significantly impacted. First a definition:
    According to that definition, in the US long-term unemployment historically looks like this - see here.

    Now what does that chart say? That we've had a good ride this past decade since 2009 when the high-unemployment rate of 10% was turned south. Throughout the following decade that unemployment-rate was diminishing annually. Until Covid arrived. (Will it recover from Covid. Yes, it should.)

    So, what's the problem? It's that most Americans got used to the fact that they were continually employed. And when that stopped with Covid, they got very, very angry.

    So, sorry boyz-'n-girlz, but That's Life! Get used to it ... because it has always been that way. There is NO JOB-SECURITY THAT IS GUARANTEED FOREVER!

    Wakey, wakey - to a very common rule about lifestyles on this planet! Every new generation must learn the key rule of national employment: Any and all well-developed economies are highly cyclic in nature! They may guaranty good pay-levels, but they also fluctuate greatly.

    So?

    So - if just coming on to the job-market - be prepared to have to contend with displacement when you lose your job. Which is going to happen because such is unavoidable in a functional economy nowadays. The solidly-continuing job-market in manufacturing have - for the most part - hightailed it to either Mexico or the Far East.


    What is left is an upper-level job-market requiring an advanced degree - one that is well-paid but also highly fluctuating ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I personally consider it possible.... and a very good idea..... to REDUCE INCOME TAX AT ALL LEVELS..... at the same time that we finance a Basic Minimum Income of around five hundred dollars per month here in Canada, (roughly welfare payments to a single male with their own home).

    With over thirty seven billion Canadians this would cost about eighteen billion dollars per month........ but...... if it is created at essentially zero interest..... and is still subject to income tax , (even if income tax is at lower levels)...... as we did from 1938 to 1974....... then......... it would be taxed back into the treasury after it would turn over three or four times.......

    and it should soon work out to eighteen billion dollars paid against the Canadian deficit each month.

    We Canadians actually got the idea from President Lincoln according to my understanding of the history of what we did up here.

    The key to doing this was given by economist Milton Friedman, make this Basic Minimum Income Supplement to go to all Canadians..... regardless of whether or not they are poor.......... but it will be taxable.

    We Canadians noticed that President Lincoln had saved American taxpayers four billion dollars in interest payments so by 1938 we were applying what we learned from his Greenback Monetary Policy Experiment.


    https://www.michaeljournal.org/articles/politics/item/abraham-lincoln-and-john-f-kennedy



    Ms. Betty Krawczyk does a great job of explaining what happened up here:



    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...nal-income-supplement.569548/#post-1071516667

    and.....

     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I actually answered over seven years..... and I feel that the little nation of Israel holds the key to doing this.......
    basically...... it is based on a beginning of diverting the Islamic nations away from Jihad and into turning deserts green........ but that is just the beginning.....



    Can the national debt of the USA be paid off in one year?

    1. No
      13 vote(s)
      76.5%

    2. Yes
      3 vote(s)
      17.6%
    3. *
      No.. it will take seven years and Ezekiel chapters forty to forty eight must be prepared for.
      1 vote(s)
      5.9%

    4. By this do you mean that the national debt of the USA is partly a practical joke???????
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
    Change Your Vote



    After the Abraham Peace Accord turn deserts green...


     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  6. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    France is an economic 'black-hole' in the European 'universe'. If it weren't for endless 'money-printing' by the European Central Bank, France could never be rescued -- not even by the only country in the world where neo-Socialism actually works fairly well -- your EU partner and next-door neighbor, GERMANY.

    Oh, and if it is any consolation, ITALY is even worse than France!

    Afterthought: Poor, old France.... It has done little but fail in nearly everything, except cheese and wine, since the time of Napoleon....

    [​IMG]. Something France can be proud of... but, economics and politics...? :lonely:
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
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  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Blah, blah, blah and more blah.

    This is a debate-forum not a Message Board. Let's see a cogent argument instead of the useless carping ...
     
  8. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    No reason to get all "Lèse majesté" on me, Frenchie.... And, yeah, I've got a pretty good idea how this Forum works. I've been a member here for over twelve years!

    France is an economic ABYSS, and the United States is plunging headlong into the very same kind of economic cesspit that France is -- hopelessly dependent on a damned 'central bank' to run its economy because the government is so corrupt that there is no chance of the situation ever being corrected by "We, the People"....

    Do you know what the ratio of national debt versus GDP is now in the United States? Look it up! Ours is already WORSE than that of France! :omg:
     
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  9. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can the national debt of the USA be paid off in one year? Of course it can, the question who will pay it. We can cut expenses, like the military spending, education or social services, double tax the middle class,double tax on the wealthy, eliminated tax loopholes and more. So the answer is - yes we can. And the other, more important question is who has the political power to do it? The answer is: nobody.
     
  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which is the same BS that is perpetrated everytime, here, when a participant has nothing better to say nor the proof of what they say.

    So, big-guy, now go "prove it". That is, that the EU is an anti-competitive entity. I want to see the judgements made by the EU-courts in matter! So, I went looking for them myself!

    And I found this: Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) - Europa EU - and this:
    What one can also find is this: Application of Competition rules by national courts – Article 15 (2). Which site is closed at the moment for updating.

    And, go here, for the court decisions made at the uniquely national level: European Courts Judgements - Archive: competition cases before 1999 - the rest "up-to-date" are being retabulated actually.

    My Point: The EU Courts of law have been VERY ACTIVE in the matter of market competition ... !
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  11. Conservative Democrat

    Conservative Democrat Well-Known Member

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    Dennis Tate,

    You never got back to me concerning my criticism of The Book of Mormon and The Book of Abraham.

    Donald Trump told Bob Woodward he could pay off the national debt in eight years, but Trump is a delusional charlatan.
     
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  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    HOW COULD SO MANY COUNTRIES GET THE COVID DEATH RATE SO WRONG?

    And yet, 73,768,906 Americans actually voted for The Donald.

    Makes one wonder. From The Atlantic here: How Trump Sold Failure to 70 Million People


    Maybe 80% of Republican voters DID NOT WANT TO BELIEVE that the Covid-virus was a killer. And subsequently this attitude affected they way they voted for Trump.

    The dieing is only starting - even with the advent of preventive means to kill the Covid-bug. Today's total for the US is 78.2 deaths per 100K of population. It's international mortality-rate ranking is shown here. Note also, however, the low mortality rate of Germany (16.96)!

    What did Germany do right? It got its act together from the very beginning! See here from the NYT (last April) ...


     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  13. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    "Competition"...? Who's bellyaching about "competition"...?! I pointed out that France (and very honestly, Germany... along with Italy and the rest of the 'slacker' Southern European countries in the EU) are wholly and completely tied to the 'apron strings' of the EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK!

    Oh, and did you not find it intriguing that Madame Christine Lagarde, after running the international-socialist IMF (International Monetary Fund), which doles out hundreds of millions of dollars to tin-pot dictators and other corrupt thieves throughout the world, now has one full year in as president of (*Gasp!*) -- THE EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK! :omg:

    Now believe this if nothing else -- you in Europe will NEVER be rid of this smothering overlord central-bank tyranny! You in the EU will be kept just barely above death-by-insolvency, dancing fitfully to the 'tune' of Madame Lagarde or another autocrat just like her! And, you'll never get out of DEBT, either!

    The very same is true of us in the United States! We will never get rid of the central-bank that was imposed on us by liberal, "progressive" Democrats in 1913 -- THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM. And, we'll never get rid our debt, either.

    So, to the OP, "Can the national debt of the USA be paid off in one year?", I simply reply -- HELL, NO! Because the internationalist banker hegemony that has taken over total control of the EU's economy -- and ours -- doesn't ever want anybody's national debt to be paid off! If we did, who could this conniving central-banker scum dominate then...?!

    [​IMG]. "L’état, c’est moi!" :nana:
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
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  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or.... he was serious when he made these statements?


    Because this is an important part of what must be done.

    Trump Calls For Auditing the Fed


    Trump Calls For Auditing the Fed






     
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fascinating.... .this brings me back to those good ol' days in the Worldwide Church of God when Pastor General Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong were warning us about the Beast Power rising up in Europe!?

    As you can see from the asterix.. .my own actual answer to the poll was that it would take seven years.....
    because there is a lot of bias to overcome in spite of the method of doing this actually being amazingly simple.....


    Can the national debt of the USA be paid off in one year?

    1. No
      14 vote(s)
      73.7%

    2. Yes
      3 vote(s)
      15.8%
    3. *
      No.. it will take seven years and Ezekiel chapters forty to forty eight must be prepared for.
      1 vote(s)
      5.3%

    4. By this do you mean that the national debt of the USA is partly a practical joke???????
      1 vote(s)
      5.3%
    Change Your Vote



    Now to explain how to do this here in Canada which once that is understood at much lower and simpler numbers any of you can see how this can also be done in the USA... and then expanded to the rest of the world.....
     
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From 1938 to 1974 we Canadians used our own Bank of Canada that is theoretically owned by all Canadians.... to create a large percentage of the money supply of Canada.......

    P. M. Pierre E. Trudeau messed that up back in 1974 which caused the national debt of Canada to spiral out of control.....

    This was at least partly deliberate though so that the same thing could be organized in the USA....


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ashington-swamp-from-the-ottawa-swamp.551407/

     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Theoretically..... we Canadians could go back to our brilliant 1938 to 1974 central banking policy in order to finance a Basic Minimum Income of five hundred dollars per Canadian..... .to all thirty seven point six million Canadians........ for all of their lives....... borrow eighteen billion dollars per month from the Bank of Canada to finance this......... As Canadians spend their extra five hundred per month it will be taxed back into the treasury..... We can forgive the loan as it is actually given to Canadians and voila...... as the BMI money is spent and turns over about three or four times and is taxed back... .WE WOULD BE PUTTING EIGHTEEN BILLION DOLLARS PER MONTH FIRST TOWARD OUR DEFICIT... .AND SOON TOWARD THE NATIONAL DEBT.......

    SOON... the Canadian economy can be operating IN THE BLACK as opposed to in the RED... because to a degree central banking policy has been influence by elitist ideas anyway...............

    One major key to getting this done is to convince people who tend to be pro-life to take another look at MMT, (Modern Monetary Theory), Quantitive Easing and historical Social Credit Economic Theory, (that in actuality is nearly the polar opposite of socialism... but most people don't know that)!

    Would a Basic Minimum Income dramatically reduce abortions?


    One part of my goal is to finance the economic freedom of Americans to NOT abort their children and... to move to rural America or Canada if they choose to do so... because and extra 2000 per month for a family of four can make moving to rural America possible.......





    The Worgl Austria Great Depression Experiment and a real estate boom in rural America?

    In other words...... I am advocating using rural real estate instead of gold or silver to........


    Could a real estate boom plus better Fed policy pay off USA national debt?

    In order to understand what we did in Canada from 1938 to 1974 nobody wrote it up better than Ms. Betty Krawczyk:


    Responding to a BEAR market vs a Bull market?

    https://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2015/07/how-pierre-trudeau-turned-us-into-debt.html

    HOW PIERRE TRUDEAU TURNED US INTO DEBT SLAVES


     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  18. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I had written my Post #63 (above) in response to comments by @LafayetteBis , who is in France (I think). Truthfully, I know nothing about how Canadians handle their economy. That said, as things most likely resume going straight to hell here in the States with the infliction of "Obama 2.0", it isn't beyond possibility that I may end up there someday. I'm getting kind of old for that 'relocation' crap, but Uncle Sugar and the orgs that owe me money can send it to a Canadian address as well as any other.... HOWEVER --

    [​IMG]. "Joe, we've been at 'Obama 2.0' for YEARS -- catch up!" :flagcanada:
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  19. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Things have gone-to-hell in the US. You are just not looking at the right data.

    Take Life Expectancy (total male/female) that is 78.93 years this year in the US. In the European Union, which it the only other comparable economy, Life Expectancy is 81 years.Why the difference? Because a National Healthcare System (NHS) in Europe that is far less costly per capita in the US. Which means that when people have a health-problem i Europe they just walk into the nearest NHS-office.

    And, as the developed world shifts from a Manufacturing to a Services Economy, the job-market is changing greatly. Today, a post-graduate degree gets you a good-job, far more so than just a high-school diploma. Who has (as an annual rate) more post-graduate degree professionals annually than the US? One guess. The EU. Why? Because at the Bachelor level average tuition fees in Europe can range from 4,500 EUR/year (5150$/year) whilst in the US the average cost is almost 3 times that cost ($14K) in a state-school (and just less than 6-times the EU-cost for a private-school university degree) ...
     
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  20. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I cannot quarrel with your post (above). My German friends tell me essentially the same thing, and I know for a fact that in Germany, healthcare is quite good.

    Here in the U. S., college costs are obscenely high, and healthcare costs are, too. But both were actually quite reasonable until GOVERNMENT started injecting itself into both of those areas, beginning back in the 1970's, believe it or not.

    I haven't much time at the moment, so I'll just make two quickie recommendations that I've made here in the Forum before, although not to you:

    1. We need to adopt a Single-Payer healthcare system in which people have the option to enroll into what would be the largest customer-base in the world, with improved coverage and lower premiums as a result. No welfare... no 'subsidies'... each person enrolled pays to be a member of "the club" in proportion to the coverage desired. No more, and no less.

    2. We badly need to adopt a public education system that is MUCH more like that of Germany! You probably know what I mean, although I do not know what your system is like in France -- but it's probably better than this pile of expensive, useless sh!t we have over here, which prepares American students for NOTHING of any benefit to them!
     
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  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes the above is possible. Is it probable ... dunno.

    It can be done without a National Healthcare System that pays-for-everything. (Even if it does ask small subsidiary fees from members, who are members from birth.)

    Could not agree more. Really, Uncle Sam is blind-on-this-one. Those goods-producing jobs that went to Mexico, China and the Far East AINT COMIN' BACK!

    What do we do with the people caught-in-the-middle. That is:
    *Most are nowhere near retirement-age.
    *They are out of a job and have been looking for another since more than a year. Some more than 2 years.
    *If they find one, it will likely be paying far, far less than the one they had in a factory-somewhere.

    I suggest this:
    *Let's level with the American people - who were DreamWalking with Donald-Dork (who is sick in the head and cares ONLY about himself)!
    *Let's get those who can and want to do so the education that they need to re-kickstart life as a gainfully-employed persons!
    *Let's get the money from the DoD budget and start spending it on said education/training above - because when Covid is over there will remain the Old Reality with which the unemployed (and unemployable!) will still be confronted ...

     
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  22. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I will agree that Americans, and probably most Europeans, too, face the enigma of what "work and reward" will look like in the future. We were already moving rapidly toward a 'brave new world' where more and more 'work' was done by developing artificial intelligence, computers, robotics, and more and more 'self-help' methods by which customers conducted many of their own 'marketplace' activities themselves! And than along came the VIRUS -- which, in my estimation, will cause the transition to move at an even much faster speed, and be even more pervasive and often disruptive in its effects.

    As I even try to imagine what politicians even exist who can, or will, do anything to develop the positive aspects of these changes, while assuaging the negative ones, I see few, if any, who might do anything truly beneficial.

    Perhaps the one presidential candidate that may have a CLUE is a Democrat, and that's a bizarre thing for a rock-solid Conservative like myself to say. His name is Andrew Yang, and as we saw during this past year, Yang didn't stand a chance compared to the "old guard" of Democrats who made their 'name and fame' by pushing themselves as 'woke' social-justice-warriors who were ready to champion any government handout welfare program imaginable in return for votes....

    Yang himself has his own pet form of welfare, but is isn't as mindlessly irresponsible and socially destructive as those hawked by the other liberals. He calls it Universal Basic Income (UBI), and in Europe you've already seen one variant of it adopted this year in Spain.

    This UBI, or something like it, is probably going to be necessary for an American population like ours to successfully engage the approaching, staggering transition coming -- especially now that our own variety of 'wanna-be', neo-Socialists are taking over both the White House, the House of Representatives, and, possibly, the Senate, too.

    It's hard -- damned hard -- for me to accept any of this. I've always believed the Benjamin Franklin was right when he said, “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.” But, never before in human history have we ever faced a supremely paradoxical situation in which a seriously overpopulated world suddenly finds that it will need fewer people doing 'work'... and those fewer people will be doing very different kinds of 'work', on top of everything else....

    We must avoid having a "Skinner Box" end-game situation erupting on a planetary scale, or, that could "herald" the end of mankind.

    [​IMG]. "Ok, everybody, listen up! Here comes the 'New World Order', like it or not!"
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  23. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The situation is not "arbitrary". It is more like "fatal". The Chinese and the rest of southeast Asia have a corner on low-cost, low-tech product manufacturing. One of those countries, India, does both because it put its kids through free post-secondary education programs.

    Both the US and EU have had blinders on as regards their ability to compete in manufacturing. The game is done, we lost.

    Move on. Move upward Uncle Sam, because the EU educates its kids (for comparably modest fees) up to and including Any Post-secondary Educational Level they chose ... !
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  24. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    I bet that makes you happy to doesnt it?
     
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  25. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Did you know that many Atheist have some of the most fascinating near death experience accounts of any particular group of people?

    The near death experience of former Skeptic Mellen Thomas Benedict stands out in my mind because he was shocked when he found his consciousness outside his body........
    then he sees a Being and / or Beings or beings of light..... so he assumes that this Being of Light must be polite and well informed like some of his professors at university had been......... the nicer ones anyway.........
    so Mellen starts asking more and more and more and more questions.... and he gets answers to every question.... and his mind is kind of blown by the whole thing.........
    but what he writes about what he was shown is brilliant by essentially any definition that I can think of of brilliant writings?!



    https://www.near-death.com/philosophy/atheism-and-ndes.html


    and....

    https://www.near-death.com/experiences/exceptional/mellen-thomas-benedict.html

     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020

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