If it's not fraud, why does it look so much like fraud?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by God & Country, Nov 23, 2020.

  1. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — Democrat Joe Biden has been certified as the winner of the presidential election in Pennsylvania, culminating three weeks of vote counting and a string of failed legal challenges by President Donald Trump, state officials said Tuesday.
     
  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    C'mon in, Spooky, the water's fine :) Estamos buenos! (Though I prefer Portuguese)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  3. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    Team Trump says they've got it. We'll see what happens after mid-December.
    EDIT: Or at least enough evidence that voter fraud from mail in ballots occurred more often than other forms of voting, and is therefore impermissible and all must be thrown out. With what is left were this to happen, I'd think Trump wins.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  4. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

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    I follow Trump on twitter because its one of the funniest twitter accounts to follow, there are millions of brits who do. I imagine many more people in foreign countries follow him for the entertainment factor.
     
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  5. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    I see....so they have all this evidence but just refuse to show it? Uh huh...funny stuff
     
  6. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The 'actors' Biden is appointing are serious, very experienced, professionals and are refreshing choices compared to the general buffoonery we have seen from Team Trump. Aside from your other fever swamp driven allegations and assorted Newsmax talking points, I'd like to address the question you put forth in the headline of your OP:

    If it's not fraud, why does it look so much like fraud?

    The answer, GC, has a lot to do with what Trump DID TO YOU.

    See, every election has irregularities. Trump has decided that his only hope of reversing the outcome of the election, was to trump up such irregularities and cast doubt upon the overall result, such that, he thinks, if he can cast enough doubt on the outcome he could persuade state legislatures to set aside the popular vote, and allow Trump to slate in his own electors, who would ultimately pick him when the time comes for electors to cast their vote.

    See? That is the strategy, and that is the ONLY reason he's fogging the landscape, which is to say, poisoning the landscape, creating in the minds of his followers doubt about the election, because if he can persuade his base that he is the rightful winner, that's some 70 million people or so, he can put enough fear in the senate and state republican legislatures, for fear of reprisals from Trump, they would go his way.

    Why it 'looks like fraud' is because Trump has, by design, made it look like fraud.

    See, Trump knows that the vast majority of his base will not be able to tell the difference between trumped up fraud and bona fide fraud, where trumped up fraud are just irregularities, the kind that occur in every election, and bona fide fraud is proof that Democrats are involved in a massive conspiracy to cheat Trump from victory, noting that the latter, i.e., 'bona fide evidence' has not been produced in any of the 30+ lawsuits Team Trump and allies have thus far filed, which is why there is NO evidence that will survive forensic scrutiny, to prove that Democrats 'stole the election' as Trump so wrongfully is alleging. All of the fever swamp allegations made by Trumpsters on Fox and Newsmax, all if it is noise. It sounds great, but if it were real, surely Trump's lawyers would provide the evidence in court. Well, they haven't, in fact, when asked, Trump's lawyers said to the judges, 'this is not about fraud'. The reason they say that in a court of law is that they know they could be disbarred if they intentionally lied to a federal judge.

    Has not Trump, long before the first ballot was cast, has not Trump been poisoning the concept of democracy by declaring "Democrats can win ONLY if they RIG the election"? Has he not, since the beginning, been priming his base to be doubtful of democrats integrity, to be suspicious of them? And, as soon as the election, one where 160,000,000 votes are cast, one cast in 50 states and thousands of counties, whereupon irregularities of one kind or another are inevitable, as soon as the election and the subsequent irregularities occurred, he could zoom in on them, trump them up beyond any semblance of perspective, and say "See, they cheated" and then guys like you ask the question, "why does it look like fraud"

    The short answer is, GC, Trump has made it so, he as done it to you in a hail mary attempt that He, not dems, is trying to steal the election.

    And, let us not forget, GC, that the only reason Trump is not succeeding is for one simple idea, and it is thus, it's a thing called.....


    The truth.

    And the TRUTH, is GC, Biden won, fair and square, and in a matter so important, we're talking the the most central concept which goes to the CORE of what America stands for, i.e., DEMOCRACY.

    On something so important to American values, there is no way in hell Trump's big lie will prevail. America, simply put, is better than that.

    And Thank your Lord, God, for that fact.



     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  7. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post, but I have a feeling it will fall on deaf ears. Someone who has hitched his wagon firmly to the Trump train for four years is not all of a sudden going to turn around and see Trump for what he is: The emperor without clothes. The emotional attachment is too strong.
     
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  8. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    They do have evidence. They aren't showing it as, going into court, you show as little as you have to ahead of time.
    And many on this thread seem to misunderstand the difference between, say, proving a criminal case and proving a process issue in need of remedy.
     
  9. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha...you realize cases keep getting thrown out for NO EVIDENCE, right? So again, if they have evidence why haven't they shown it?
     
  10. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

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    Bearing in mind that Trump has been making accusations of voter fraud since 2016 without any evidence and he went into this election claiming voter fraud would take place, what would Trump supporters of needed to of happened for them to say Trump had lost fair and square? Or did you always consider this was a forgone conclusion, that if Trump lost it would be because of fraud.
     
  11. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    Do you think the USSC will take the case? I do but.... if it gets there it is a defeat for city hall. Which doesn't happen often.
     
  12. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    No. If cases are getting laughed out of the lower courts, for no evidence, what makes you think the USSC will take it?
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes... and if America falls to exceptionally dishonest people it will be very difficult to clean up Ottawa and........... more and more Canadians and American will want to get away from urban areas that tend to be controlled by the political left.....

    I do hope that Rudy and Sidney are able to turn this into a successful two front legal war... .the stakes are huge..... there was seven hundred and ten trillion dollars in the worldwide Derivatives markets in 2014... and two hundred and ten trillion in the USA Derivatives markets........ CIA economist Jim Rickards warned us that problems would be coming our way if and when China went out to cripple the USA petro-dollar....

     
  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if your statistics are accurate or not but I voted for Biden and I don't have a Twitter account. He wasn't my first choice or even my 20th choice but I would have voted for a rock if that was my only alternate choice. Really.
     
  15. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Vulnerability is not evidence of a crime.
     
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  16. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    First you have to prove they've been corrupted.
     
  17. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    I'm not accusing them of a crime. I'm accusing them of offering a failing system. I do not trust it to do it's job.
    There are 2 doors. One has a bolt lock. The other has no lock at all.
    Someone judges whether or not there really is any material difference between the 2 doors.
    You do not need an underlying crime to say the door without a lock just is not secure enough to function properly (to add security). You find it faulty and throw it out.
    So, all those people voting with unsolicited mail in ballots? If 100% of those are thrown out, will Trump win? I think so. We'll see.

    EDIT: Well, yeah. I think the election was stolen. But that isn't the only material part of what may win this for Trump.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  18. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    You still haven't shown anything but vulnerability. And if you think the election was stolen, you are indeed accusing someone of a crime.
     
  19. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    Well that was tumble down a rabbit hole. One day we’ll get back to a common set of facts and be able to distinguish them from leaps of our imagination.
     
  20. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Very well stated. Unfortunately solid reporting of factual circumstances does not often get very far around here.
     
  21. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    If it's not fraud, why does it look so much like fraud?
    If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck.............
     
  22. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually it would be the America that most Democrats and leftists want, a fundamentally transformed America as promised by Obama that cuts the country down to size and institutes a country ruled by one political party according to their whims.
     
  23. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    True, and I don't know if all of the photos, found ballots, affidavits, etc. will do the job or not.
    So my hope is, on a process matter, they're just thrown out as faulty. Something so vulnerable as to not be trust worthy. Once the mail in ballots are thrown out, maybe Trump wins. We'll see.
     
  24. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    The problem I have with this is that it has already worked it's way through the courts. If there were anything to see, you'd have already seen it.
     
  25. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's fraud.. massive fraud.. and it is a quickening of the slide into totalitarianism. I praY, THAT AT SOME POINT, the Constitution is followed and it is not allowed to happen.
     

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