illegal to be muscular in Sweden, Belgium

Interesting what you think of as masculine men, the toughest, most masculine men I know are those in special forces, and none of them look unnaturally muscle bound. Explained to me by my mate who was RSM for 40th commando that too much muscle mass uses up too much oxygen and that reduces endurance. Still if muscles turn you on who am I to deter you!

 

They probably use something to our 'reasonable suspicion' rule which translates into an anonymous tip on which they base their investigation and the investigation itself does the rest. As for the first reference to poor Boris the dietician. He was probably 'selected' because these sports events and shows do random testing to keep the sport clean. You choose the risk of testing, when you choose to compete.

There is no evidence that this is some anti toxic masculinity campaign. Its an anti steroids campaign because steroids have a very toxic affect on the human body when used illegally..

 

...its the baby oil....

 

You're either off-topic, or it sounds like you're trying to come up with justification for what the law enforcement was doing in these situations, trying to claim it doesn't constitute part of a wider assault on masculinity because (allegedly) muscles are not necessarily a part of being "masculine".

 

Take a look at what "anonymous tips" can do in other situations...
Couple held in handcuffs, house raided/searched because of hibiscus plants

 

No I am challenging your silly idea this is an attack on masculinity by pointing out that really masculine men do not need to have un-natural muscle size. This is about illegal steroid use which is a real issue. You have no evidence that masculinity is being attacked apart from your strange idea that huge muscles equal masculine. Still it is good to see you supporting a group well known to be frequented by the lesbian and gay community you are normally so against them!

Anti-doping is not just something that exists in elite sports; it’s increasingly being applied to recreational gym users. While most countries focus on prevention and education, a handful have taken the drastic step of introducing doping controls in commercial gyms. In 2003, Belgium became the first country to introduce such measures. Sweden, Denmark and Norway soon followed their lead.

Since the early 2000s, recreational trainers in Belgium – especially in Flanders – have been forbidden from using substances banned by the World Anti-Doping Code (WADC), which governs elite athletes. They also face the same sanctions as elite athletes. To vet people, anti-doping officials use muscle profiling. Although doping controls are meant to be random, it is often male weight trainers with a more muscular appearance who are tested for the use of steroids.

Police are able to conduct a home search based on a positive test, and an athlete may be subject to both a doping and a drug investigation for the same offence. These people face criminal prosecution for the use or possession of illegal substances and they also face sanctions from the Flemish national anti-doping organisation (NADO). If a person tests positive, and it’s a first offence, they may be banned by NADO Flanders for two years from every gym and any form of organised sport in the region. They may also receive a fine of, on average, €1,000-2,000, although fines can be as high as €25,000.
https://theconversation.com/doping-...e-costly-and-more-common-than-you-think-68797

 

And that's the problem. If you conduct tests based on routine or flimsy reasons, then it is fairly easy for someone who did not break the law to end up in prison.

Like I have said, these tests are not always completely 100% accurate. A test that indicates a "positive" result does not always necessarily mean the person was actually using illegal steroids.

Therefore, subjecting muscular appearing men to these tests ultimately subjects them to a risk of wrongful punishment that members of the normal population do not have.

 

But that is irrelevant to the claim you made that this was " part of the war on "toxic masculinity". Bikers often get searched for drugs for no other reason that they are Bikers, yet bikers are often considered very masculine characters, never have I heard a complaint from a biker that it was part of a toxic war on masculinity!

 

I served in an outfit like that. I am a small guy made just the minimum heights requirements, 130 lbs at that time. In the 4 years I never got beyond 140, The Rat. I had to carry half to 2/3 of my body weight, up to 2 weeks. I just got streamlined, no body fat no excess water.
Scared the hell out of my mother, because I had hollow cheeks, sunken in she called it. My girl friend at that time was college marathon runner, skinny like me, but a head taller. At my time of she came along on one of my runs, 10k, 60 pounds in the ruck and 10 metal in the hands.
It was easy for her in a skimpy running suit, till I gave her ruck with 30 pounds and 5 metal in her hands.
Its how the muscles get trained, pumping iron creates muscles, but mostly no strength, just meat, its one of those cases were size does not matter.
Even the big guys, who bulked up some, never really gained weight, a few pounds, they stream lined. But the strength they had unreal.
I had to be rather lady like shaking hands, or I would do some serious damage, just The Rat.
Masculine man, what a stupid expression, just from the looks ?
Me dad gave me a lesson once, Rittmeister of the Cav, when I sneared about homosexuals. His best machine gunner was a homosexual. Everybody new it, very dangerous for him. The guy got loaded with medals, till somebody, snitched him and they picked him up. He survived.
In my second last year we got a very lean and nice looking guy, he made it through hell week, so he was one of us.
Openly homosexual, one of the first. I made him my team member, best I have ever had, my spotter. He is now married, to a very nice guy.
You could not call him masculin, he was the female part in his relation ships. But he was a hell of man, still is in my eyes.

 

I think we're getting off-topic. If not, explain how this has something to do with the discussion in the first post.

Sorry to touch on some of your insecurities, if that was the case.

But let's not get distracted by other side issues.

 

It has everything to do with with your original post, your premise is that un-natural muscle development is a sign of masculinity, and therefore the body builders are being singled out because they represent "toxic masculinity". In actual fact body building is not a good indicator of masculinity and therefore your argument is false. Body building is an obsession with ones looks, and whilst being presentable is good an unhealthy obsession with ones looks is not an indicator of masculinity.
Basically if I was in the police and fighting steroid abuse I would target gyms and body builders, if I was after Es I would target a rave. It is just common sense and not a conspiracy against masculinity.

 

What an absurd statement based on the baloney that is this thread....your whole premise is based on varying degrees of paranoia and a wilful misunderstanding of how the world works.
Wishing to apply conspiracy theory to the type of work mentioned in the subject matter you posted verges on the banal. Instead of forging ahead in your usual hamfisted manner posting half baked theories and distorted versions of reality, why not take some time to actually read and understand the subject - it makes it far more interesting for the forum members to get their teeth into something half way intelligent.

 

steroid's should be legal, sure, can restrict them from sports, but no reason to ban them from people that want them

I knew a guy about 20 years ago in my republican state that had to go to court ordered drug treatment cause he got caught using steroids, lol, he could not believe it

time to end the war on drugs

 

The article (in the original Swedish language) didn't explicitly come out and flat say it, but if anyone "read between the lines" it should have been obvious that how the police handled this situation was very questionable, in the sense that there did not really exist adequate reason for these persons to be compelled to submit to a test. I have already explained why this whole thing is (potentially) very problematic.

I hope all that is not too complicated for you to understand.
It's not any one single thing that is really the problem, but it is how all of this pieces together into a system.

Now, tell me, what part exactly do you claim I am "misunderstanding"?

 

But that really has nothing to do with the primary point trying to be made in this thread.

The main issue here wasn't about steroids being illegal or illegal, but about how people who are not breaking that law could end up having their rights violated, or even wrongly end up facing punishment.

It's basically subjecting people with a muscular-looking appearance to scrutiny, suspicion, testing and potential searches, when other normal-looking people are not.

 

sure it does, that is why they arrested these people, stupid drug laws

 

This,

 

The "War on Drugs" can have many side effects on people who are not using drugs.

"unintended consequences" and "collateral damage"

I can see you didn't bother really reading through all of the thread.
Or you don't really understand it.

 

totally agree, the war on drugs harms society more then the drugs themselves ever could

 

Prohibition never works.

 

I believe that is definitely a factor here. Maybe not the primary factor, but it is a factor.

In a nation like, say, Russia, targeting and picking men out of the crowd who appeared more muscular than usual would raise some red flags, and would seem like obviously not a good or appropriate thing to do.
(The same way that picking black men out of a crowd would be seen as a bad thing to do in a country like the US)

The issue is, in some of these European countries like Sweden, there's some vague sense in the society's collective consciousness that exaggerated signs of masculinity are not a normal or good thing. And so they don't have a problem viewing this group of people as "freaks" and picking them out of the crowd, making an assumption that they may likely be doing something wrong.

That's kind of an exaggerated way of putting it, but it's the best way to explain.
Whether discrimination happens depends on whether the discriminating factor is seen as ideal or "normal" in that society.

 

No it was presented as the primary reason in your article, you appear to of backed away from the ludicrous idea now. From your article.

No, what this really is is an attack on masculine men.

 

Liberal and totalitarian are mutually exclusive propositions. So which is Sweden?

 

That is due to other negative stereotypes about Bikers.

But imagine if, for example, police started wanting to search the homes of old people who formerly served in a war and fought for their country, thinking these old people might be more likely than the general population to keep weapons that were not legal?
Almost no one would see that as acceptable. Why? Because these people would be being discriminated based on an attribute that was supposed to be commendable.
It doesn't make sense to single out and target people based on something if your society wants and likes the fact that those people did that thing.

 

And body builders get searched for stereotypes about body builders, ie they use steroids it has nothing to do with your "toxic masculinity" rubbish.