The founders never saw him coming.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lee Atwater, Nov 26, 2020.

  1. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In their day, when they were forming the manner in which we would govern ourselves, certain things never even occurred to them. One was the need to qualify the unbridled power of a prez to issue pardons and commutations by stipulating it could not be used to reward the silence of potential witness' in matters relating to impeachment.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/28/trumps-lawyer-floated-idea-of-pardons-in-muellers-russia-probe.html
    Such actions should not only be outside a prez's power to carry out, they should be illegal.

    It is not the only post-Trump reform his behavior has highlighted the need for.

    Congress needs to clarify a number of ambiguities in order to make certain behaviors clearly illegal. The language of the Emoluments Clause needs modification to prevent things like a prez profiteering from the ownership of property.

    Never again should a prez be allowed to fire Inspectors General when those inspectors are investigating corruption and illegalities the prez is involved in.
    https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/may/19/trump-has-pushed-out-5-inspectors-general-april-he/

    Who can blame Madison or Jefferson for not anticipating the need to block a presidential candidate from using his foundation to funnel millions of dollars intended for military veterans in to his campaign? They were not so naive as to think sexual affairs did not occur. But they can be forgiven for not specifying a presidential candidate can not pay off participants in sexual affairs to keep them silent shortly before an election.

    Trump has forced us to revisit the OLC prohibition against indicting a sitting prez.

    He has made it necessary to require presidential candidates disclose their finances as a pre-condition for the nomination of any party.

    The use of the WH as a prop during the campaign has caused the need to put teeth in violations of the Hatch Act.

    What makes the Trump presidency unique is his criminal conduct was not done in pursuit of policy, as Reagan's was. It was a central feature of his self-serving tenure.
    ..................................................................................................................................
    Lastly, Don's pardoning of Flynn has made me re-think the matter of whether Biden should use the federal government to pursue criminal investigations/prosecutions against Trump. I previously thought for the sake of national unity he should let the NY state authorities be the ones to hold Trump accountable for his actions. No longer. After the Flynn pardon I say gut the bastard.
     
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  2. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. I thank Almighty God you have absolutely no political power whatsoever.
     
  3. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You appear to be overwhelmed by the facts. If you gather yourself to the point when you can make a cogent comment on my post I welcome the opportunity to respond. If not, Happy Thanksgiving.
     
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  4. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Stupid post. Obama weaponized the FBI to target political opponents. The FBI forced Flynn into a felony plea deal for a crime he didn't commit then withheld exculpatory evidence. If they can do that to a highly decorated General with a spotless record you should fear what they could do to ordinary Americans.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  5. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    After over 33 years of military service to our country, including nearly five years in combat away from my family, and then my decision to continue to serve the United States, it has been extraordinarily painful to endure these many months of false accusations of "treason" and other outrageous acts. Such false accusations are contrary to everything I have ever done and stood for. But I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong, and, through my faith in God, I am working to set things right. My guilty plea and agreement to cooperate with the Special Counsel's Office reflect a decision I made in the best interests of my family and of our country. I accept full responsibility for my actions.

    December 1, 2017

    Michael Flynn Plea Agreement Documents

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/michael-flynn-plea-agreement-documents
     
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  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Facts? You mean opinions. Nobody should be overwhelmed by opinions.
     
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  7. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean Jefferson should have foreseen the same thing he did as president essentially?

    He is why we have judicial review.

    That's funny.
     
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  8. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Marbury v Madison established the SC's power to reverse acts of Congress that conflict with their interpretation of the Constitution.

    Your deflection is noted.
     
  9. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not interested in engaging with someone who is either in denial of, or unaware of, the facts. Or who seeks to deflect from the subject at hand.

    However, if you want to answer the question of whether a prez should be able to pardon someone as a reward for withholding testimony in a criminal case or an impeachment proceeding..........go ahead.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    So why did you do so?
     
  11. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    However, if you want to answer the question of whether a prez should be able to pardon someone as a reward for withholding testimony in a criminal case or an impeachment proceeding..........go ahead.
     
  12. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I thought not.
     
  13. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Why would an innocent man need a pardon?
     
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  14. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Get back to me when you actually post some concerning Trump.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  15. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The lengths to which Trump tried to protect Flynn, asking Comey to lay off.........firing him because he wouldn't lay off and instead pledge loyalty to Trump........having Barr drop the charges against a confessed felon........and now the pardon..........are unprecedented.
     
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  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    A prez can pardon anybody for anything.
     
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  17. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    There is a silver lining. Flynn will not be able to take the 5th. I don't know if the incoming AG will pursue this, but Flynn would be forced to answer questions directed at showing Trump's involvement. He's obviously guilty or Trump wouldn't have pardoned him.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  18. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    You have provided zero evidence for your claims.
     
  19. AZ.

    AZ. Banned

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    Sorta.....Any crimes against a city, county or state cant be pardoned.
     
  20. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would an innocent man need to be prosecuted for no crime?
     
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  21. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you know what the case was actually about?
     
  22. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    I asked you first. Try again. Never mind. I'll answer it myself.

    No, an innocent man would not need a pardon. Therefore, Flynn is guilty. That answers my question and yours. You're welcome.
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you support prosecuting an innocent man that committed no crime in the first place. Telling.
     
  24. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    I already blew that theory all to hell, with no help from you. I'm not going to repeat myself, but you go 'head. Shout it to the masses. Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  25. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you are unfamiliar with the case in the first place. Not surprised.
     

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