Who will swallow the Corona virus debt? The rich or the poor?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Greatest I am, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is that complicated. They understand the instant crash that closing big businesses would cause. They don't consider small businesses important so they are willing to target them.
     
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  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    This "conversation" is going nowhere. A pointless remark like that motivates me to leave it. Good bye.
     
  3. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    If the people let them do it, the people reap the results. Corny but true.

    Knowing how to get the people moving is a key that few hold, given who owns the media and can silence who they will?

    Regards
    DL
     
  4. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    What the f*** are you talking about? "The people" didn't allow anything to happen they had no control over it it was corrupt politicians and banks that chose to misuse the small business relief fund by handing out the vast majority of the money in the fund to huge corporations that do not even remotely meet the definition of a small business.
     
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  5. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    How can that be since the bottom two quintiles of tax filings pay virtually no income tax? However they will be hurt in two ways. In the short term the most likely effect of economic lockdowns is only that the poor will get poorer. Then long term when the dept and deficit gets so high the economy collapses the poor will get hit hardest.
     
  6. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    If your people are to elect corrupt individuals, talk to them.

    That is all I can do.

    Regards
    DL
     
  7. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    The poor have nothing to pay with. The middle class will likely, unless they can get the robber barons to help.

    FMPOV, all should pay some tax as proof that they are over the poverty line. All who vote should pay taxes as all should be over the poverty line.

    We can easily afford it.

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    It is YOUR statement that makes zero sense.

    "Taxpayers at different income levels experience state and local tax policy in very different ways. In Washington, for example, the lowest 20 percent of families have an average effective state and local tax rate (17.8 percent)

    "Forty-five states assess a higher tax rate on low-income families than the rich."

    "The nine states with the highest ratios (indicating much higher tax rates on the poor than on the rich) all lack broad-based personal income taxes."

    https://itep.org/how-do-tax-rates-on-the-poor-compare-to-taxes-on-the-rich-in-your-state/


    Income by quintile:
    https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/household-income-quintiles
     
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  9. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to gerrymandering it doesn't matter who the people vote for. Most seats in the house are rigged to whichever party controls the state.
     
  10. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The working class.
     
  11. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The debt will never be repaid, it will be "paid" by increasing the money supply. This has the effect of devaluating the dollar, so it affects everyone. On the other hand, it might actually be a free lunch because every industrialized country has to do the same thing.
     
  12. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    That is your system. I think it screwed fairly badly as compared to other systems that cost a lot less for governance than yours.

    Regards
    DL
     
  13. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Seems correct, but we are also passing our debt to our children.

    We have been feeding the rich for a long time yet they will not give the crumbs from their table.

    When we knowingly create poverty, we know we are creating more wealth for the rich.

    Regards
    DL
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  14. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. I can't see the rich letting us having their wealth devalued, but if everyone does, they maintain their distance from poverty and no one gains anything, other than a devaluation.

    Seems like a waste of time as prices will follow their niche markets.

    Regards
    DL
     
  15. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If the money supply goes up x%, who do you think owns this x% extra money,in the long run? Worst case for the rich is breaking even.
     
  16. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    No one, as prices would likely follow the rise.

    Regards
    DL
     
  17. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The point I'm making is that a x% increase in prices will be offset by an x% increase in the quantity of money in the hands of the rich - so they are unaffected.

    But prices don't necessarily have to increase proportional to the money supply (and not necessarily at all). We got out of the 2008 financial crisis with "quantitative easing" - which expanded the money supply, and yet inflation was modest.
     
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  18. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    True, but they do.

    Commerce and good management of sales says that they are to buy cheep and sell dear.

    Whatever the market will bear.

    Regards
    DL
     
  19. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Don't necessarily have to but usually do, with some time lag. Most of the QE money went straight into the stock market which did see inflated prices.
     
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  20. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Inflated valuations on Wall St. are more about stocks being the only place to get a return on capital in a low interest rate environment.
     
  21. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, that is true. It is also the easiest way for the fed's money to get into the system.
     
  22. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Fed has expanded its balance sheet in order to keep interest rates artificially low, encouraging borrowing to stimulate the economy and inflate asset prices. I don't know what you mean by......."It is also the easiest way for the fed's money to get into the system."
     
  23. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    As I understand it (and that ain't easy) when the fed expands the money supply it does so mainly through investment banking institutuions who are expected to loan money out to productive enterprises. They (or the productive enterprises) can (and did) also invest those funds in the stock or other equity or monetary markets.
     

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