If Trump can convince enough electors to relect him

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by stratego, Nov 27, 2020.

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What would you think about electors electing Trump?

  1. That would be undemocratic

    21 vote(s)
    70.0%
  2. That is literally their job to pick the President

    9 vote(s)
    30.0%
  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    how the right can even defend Trump stealing the election is beyond me - Biden won, time to move on
     
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  2. Independent4ever

    Independent4ever Well-Known Member

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    Because in the world of the cult

    White Supremacists = Patriots
    Supporting a coup = Patriotic
    Believing lie after lie = Super Patriotic
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  3. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    I'm not the one who cited the article with that hyperbolic, questionably accurate statement; you did. The onus is thus on you to back up their claim if you are going to use it in an argument about the integrity of this election. If you can't, that's fine; but leave it out of the discussion.

    As for mail-in voting, it should never have been implemented on a national scale, considering that it was ripe for voter fraud, as determined by the bipartisan Commission on Federal Election Reform. The Chinese Virus having such a low mortality rate, the pandemic was not a justification for its implementation. If you can go to the grocery store, if you can "protest" (riot) in the streets, you can vote on Election Day.
     
  4. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I agree with that: they could. But wouldn't, in likelihood.
     
  5. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    it's legal because the Constitution does not have any oversight for elections and it gives States the full authority to change how their elections work and how electors in the electoral college are selected.

    and they also are allowed to have laws which dictate how electors are allowed to vote. a stage which has laws which specifically states that an elector can only vote for who wins the popular vote in that state, they can legally throw out any vote that does not meet that law. And fire the elector. Faceless collectors are illegal in most States and their vote does not count if the state does not want it to. This is protected by the supreme Court who ruled that electors serve at the pleasure of their state and that if they do not follow state laws the states can override their votes.
     
  6. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    It really doesn't matter if the president is pressuring them or not. There's no law that says the president can't. Now if it came to light that Trump was bribing someone that would be a different story.
     
  7. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It would be a very neat trick for Trump to convince 36 loyal Democrat party members, to become faithless electors and vote for him instead of Biden.

    I think the only way Trump could try this is by offering massive bribes.
     
  8. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh and by the way Congress can choose not to certify the votes of faithless electors.

    And the states can choose to fire faithless electors and reverse their votes.

    It happened several times in 2016.
     
  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is false.

    The dishonest votes of several faithless electors in 2016 were reversed.
     
  10. Independent4ever

    Independent4ever Well-Known Member

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    Here is one of the things I have been worrying about. I know Biden presided over the 2016 count

    Can Pence/McConnell corrupt the count?
     
  11. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't understand why you keep spewing this falsehood. Several faithless electors have their votes reversed in 2016
     
  12. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    He can veto what he doesn't like, so his power is more than you are implying.
     
  13. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    And he can also sign what he likes.

    You're rehashing earlier parts of my discussion with Sleep Monster.

    Please don't do that.
     
  14. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, it seems to me that if he is the one signing the bill, he is the one to please.

    Not sure I'm following your premise.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  15. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    I've already went over the president's key role in the expansion of the Supreme Court--specifically, that it requires his signature.

    We've moved past that part in our discussion, and you're bringing it up again.
     
  16. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who because I am not aware of them?
     
  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL, ignore all the democrat cheating. It’s just not fair.
     
  18. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    Not true at all. In fact, "We the People" have NO absolute right to even CAST a vote for President. How Electors are chosen is solely at the discretion of the 50 State Legislatures, and even though all 50 of them have opted to use a vote by "We the People" to do so, they are under no obligation to continue doing that. They could change it to where there wasn't even ANY vote cast by us, opting instead for having the Legislature themselves elect the Electors, or even something as ridiculous as flipping a coin.

    So not only is it not "an order", it's barely even a suggestion. I highly doubt it would ever happen, but I'd love to see a State or three opt for something different, as it would literally cause lefties heads to explode!
     
  19. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think in the future the state's electors should just vote for the one who lobbies them the best (maybe with some nice kickbacks), or pressures them like Trump. Mission accomplished. What could possibly go wrong? Are you even listening to yourself while you are typing your calls to destroy democracy?
     
  20. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I cited the report that included the statement. How is it on me to prove that CISA did their jobs? Or anyone else. I merely included their link. I don't feel the need for further details, but if you do, try google.

    Going to buy groceries is already a risk, mitigated by wearing a mask and keeping my distance. An hours-long line at the polls is riskier by far. The longer one remains in proximity to possibly infected people, the greater the risk. It was just much safer to vote by mail this year for most people.

    Several states have done mail-in only for years with virtually no fraud to speak of. The system is efficient and secure here in Colorado. Here is a complete, state by state compilation of fraud instances, going back decades, from a very conservative organization:

    https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

    You believe there was massive fraud only because Trump told you so. There was no voter fraud in this election, aside from the usual few instances that were mostly error and not deliberate fraud.
     
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  21. Independent4ever

    Independent4ever Well-Known Member

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    That is the key. If Trump had encouraged everyone to vote by mail - then it would be wonderful

    Actually Trump said repeatedly that voting by absentee ballot was fine since you had to request your ballot. The issue was just mailing a ballot to everyone

    In PA, we voted by absentee ballot, a ballot was not just sent to me. It was no longer ok once it would hurt Trump
     
  22. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you saying that it doesn't bother you if Trump tries to get a state's legislative leaders to switch EC voters to those who favor him? Are you saying it's okay simply because as far as you know, it isn't illegal for him to use his influence to twist enough arms to get a win?

    Personally, I could not care less about whether or not he's breaking a law, I care that any president would behave this way, with such blatant disregard for the will of the people in any state. You agree, right?
     
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  23. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here in Colorado, there's no choice. All voting has been by mail-in only for years, efficiently and accurately. There's a reason why Colorado, in the west of the country, was one of the first states to publish their count and certify their result. For one thing, they started counting 15 days prior to election day, and kept the tallies going as ballots came in. And ballots don't get mailed out to everyone, just registered voters.

    The Republican party doesn't like it when we vote in great numbers, because they know thay don't have a majority in national elections. However, perhaps they should stop whining and look at their successes this year: they gained 9 House seats.
     
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  24. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we should stop doing that anyway, because regardless of whether or not Trump tries or succeeds at convincing Electors to change their votes (a prospect that I find almost impossible), the fact is that we are not, were not intended to be, and never have been a "democracy". We are a representative Republic, for many very good reasons.
     
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  25. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    You cited the report to back up your claim that there was no fraud. And then when I point out that there is no basis for that statement, and if you're going to include that statement as a basis for your argument, then you have to show me the hard data and the methodology used to get to it, you tell me to "try google. [sic]." Since you cannot back up that hyperbolic statement, I will have to consider it a falsehood.

    If you keep your distance and wear a mask, what does it matter if it is an hours-long wait? Even Fauci disagrees with you, saying that going to grocery store is just as safe as voting in person, if the proper guidelines are met. (1)

    Colorado has done VBM for years; they have experience with it. But just because it may work well in Colorado, it does not mean that the integrity would be the same nationwide.

    The New York Times says that "votes cast by mail are less likely to be counted, more likely to be compromised and more likely to be contested than those cast in a voting booth, statistics show. Election officials reject almost 2 percent of ballots cast by mail, double the rate for in-person voting." (2)

    Here is a quote from Brian Gaines, a political science professor at the University of Illinois: "Voting by mail has this big uncertainty about it. It is just a less secure kind of voting.” (3)

    Here's a quote from MIT's Election Data Science Lab: "As with all forms of voter fraud, documented instances of fraud related to VBM are rare. However, even many scholars who argue that fraud is generally rare agree that fraud with VBM voting seems to be more frequent than with in-person voting. Two of the best-known cases of voter fraud involving absentee voting occurred in 1997 in Georgia and Miami . More recently, a political campaign manager within North Carolina’s ninth Congressional district defrauded voters by collecting unfilled ballots and then filled in the rest of it to favor the campaign’s candidate, leading to a new election." (4)

    1. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v..._person_if_they_follow_safety_guidelines.html
    2. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/us/politics/as-more-vote-by-mail-
    3. https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Polit...y-mail-grows-in-popularity-but-is-it-reliable
    4. https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/voting-mail-and-absentee-voting
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020

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