Definitive proof that there was no fraud

Anyone who has watched the circus of the last fours years and the craziness of the radicals and sees nothing- Sees nothing. Tunnel vision, oblivious to the abnormality that offends any rational person.
Maybe you just weren't home?

 

Only a fraction of the total number of machines were online, behind firewalls, and not during the actual voting.

Still not proof 'dems stole the election' which is what Trump is alleging.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/el...s-find-nearly-three-dozen-u-s-voting-n1112436

The 35 systems Skoglund’s team found represent a fraction of total voting systems nationwide, though he believes they only captured a portion of the systems that are or have been online.

 

At 6 AM 11/4 Biden was leading by 400K

https://bluevirginia.us/2020/11/virginia-election-results-2020-live-blog

Are you capable of actually verifying any conspiracy lie before going along with it?

 

You won't ever see me claiming attorneys are generally honest- but they aren't crazy either. They don't pursue cases they know they can't win, unless somebody is fielding the cash who doesn't know better. Take the most just cause you can think of to an attorney, and unless there are deep pockets around and a likely win, they ask you how much justice you can afford.

I would think that anyone wanting to debunk conspiracy theories would have nailed the dossier as just that- but events show us that "conspiracy theories" is a label used to discredit what other people believe and avoid closer examination. Kind of like gas-lighting, calling other people crazy while the schemes play out. They simply don't see the 800 lb gorilla in the room- or pretend not to.... because it's their gorilla.

What is known so far in regards to Powell is that she says there is an algorithm hidden in a particular software that tabulates and tally's votes, that alters the numbers going to each candidate. It's not done when the vote is entered, not done by individuals at the poll- but when the electronic tally process happens. That of course in not what these current investigations are looking for- thus, not even considered by them. IF she can prove that true- it's going to hit the fan big time. If she can show it as highly probable without actual documentation, there will be some extensive investigation- or should be, if the people who don't want to be looked at don't manage to sweep it under the rug. If she actually has nothing to back up the claim, then she's done.

Just as every criminal declares themselves innocent- and god knows the democrats have denied everything but sunrise in recent years- it's all conspiracy theory to those who want it to go away. That's the defense; nothing new about calling allegations conspiracy theories. Until they are proven.

 

In a word? No

 

The drama queens love to shriek about Medicare for all. Lol

Did you know since 1986 the poor and illegal immigrants have been guaranteed medical treatment?

https://www.salon.com/2012/07/05/reagans_healthcare_mandate/

Thanks to Ronald Reagan!

Do you think maybe a vast government bureaucracy might prove inefficient and corrupt?

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...lion-medicare-waste-yes-s-how-much-improper-/

 

Someone doesn’t know the difference between preventive health care vs medical treatment.

 

Do you mean lifestyle choices or vaccinations?

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/rec-vac/immigrants-refugees.html

 

I mean preventive care vs medical treatment

 

Democrats complaining and filing lawsuits of 'early voting'? That's news to me. Got a link, or anything to back this up?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/13/fed...rnor-limiting-mail-ballot-drop-off-sites.html

 

If she could prove that, it would have been proven already. She *is* crazy. Now she is filing the "Kraken" lawsuits as she named them herself, full of typos, although nobody is paying her as she was kicked out of Trump's team.

And these electronic machines have paper trails. The hand recounts found no signs of this effect she is talking of.

This is bordering the ridiculous, now. They've been saying that any day now the proof will come. Any day. Just wait. We're waiting and waiting and nothing. That's because there isn't anything, or else, it would have been presented already, before all these states started certifying.

 

Seems I've heard that same song before. Something about Trump conspiring with the Russians. Any day now.... for several years.
I don't know if she's right or wrong- I will decide that when the dust settles.

Again- WHY are the democrats so concerned with an investigation of fraud, if there is none? The people asking for that are not producing phony dossiers and crap like that, they ask only unbiased investigation.
Why the fear? We tolerated allegations and investigations for four years from the democrats, so why is it now a bad thing?

 

What fears? The DoJ has investigated, the campaign has investigated, the state election officials have audited and investigated, the lawyers have investigated... and they found nothing. What exactly is the investigation that is being impeded? Biden and his campaign have stayed largely out of this, just serenely waiting for the courts to sort it out.

What you are engaging now with the Russian conspiracy is whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make a right. If the Dems were wrong in doing that, at the time, complain to them, I'm not a Dem. It doesn't make it any less outrageous what Trump is doing. His Fox interview was actually the time I've heard him lying the most, with the sycophantic reporter adding to it.

All these lies just undermine democracy.

 

Like everyone else, I've witnessed the Trump's chaotic administration journey of the last 4 years. It was quite a circus performance as you pointed out.

 

There were also 94,000 provisional votes that were counted. A provisional vote is one cast by someone that could not be verified as having been registered to vote. Yet, had already been counted. Since the election was decided by merely 81,000 votes, these 104,000+ votes could reasonably decide the elections.
Pennsylvania received 10,000 mail-in ballots after polls closed on Election Day (msn.com)

 

The effort to block any verification process has been denied over and over. The denials of wrong doing by the very politicians who have acted without scruples are continuous.
By the way- complaining about dem actions such as the dossier thing were loud and continuous, but nobody over there cared. It served their purpose, so they denied it was fake, defended it and pursued it.
That is not something to be dismissed or forgotten; it is defining their character. It is useless to try and cooperate with people not interested in doing so, and you know that's true.

Let's take a brief look at "Conspiracy". Basically it's two or more people working together to do something, generally illegal in nature- but sometimes just dishonest and unethical, without enabling prosecution.
The democrats have been conspiring to get Trump out of office for four years; and little in the way of moral values has been allowed to limit the methods. Hell, the FBI was involved. FISA warrant applications were knowingly falsified. Strozok was made an investigator, and we have absolute proof of his intent to conspire. That makes it pretty clear that they are capable of gross dishonesty, and would stoop to any level to accomplish it that they could get by with.

THAT undermines democracy- and they have been doing so every day of Trump's term.
Suddenly, they are trustworthy?

Only to very foolish and gullible people. I'm kind of old-school here. Fool me once, shame on you- Fool me twice, shame on me.
hey burned that bridge- and until they rebuild the trust by honest performance or get out of politics, I'm not buying in.

 

You were hardly watching the circus then, were you?
The list of things done better than ever before is long- but of course, Trump haters can't see that.
The list of things done more offensively by congress than ever before is long too, and most of it efforts to be sure Trump couldn't keep his promises to America.
THAT is the circus you watched, clowns willing to take America down rather than give Trump credit for anything.

Obviously you enjoyed that.

 

Please be specific and list what investigations attempts were blocked, and by whom. And please realize that a lawsuit being dismissed is not an attempt to block an investigation. The lawsuits were dismissed because they made allegations they were unable to prove.

Sure, the Dems may have done what you said (thankfully I'm not a Dem) but then the GOP are no saints either with Gerrymandering, attempts to suppress votes, and actually VERIFIED cases of voter fraud (look up the GOP actions in the race for the 9th North Carolina district in 2018 - that also undermines deomcracy). So, you don't trust the Dems? I don't trust the GOP either. I don't trust ANY politician, which is why I'm an independent, unaffiliated voter.

But these elections? They were fair and the Trump campaign doesn't have one ounce of proof that they were fraudulent.

Read this (try not to shoot the messenger):

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/29/opinions/donald-trump-election-fraud-failure-obeidallah/index.html

 

No problem with the messenger; I think we disagree in our perceptions, and I'm sure you have revisited yours and intend to be fair in that.
I have as well. We do and will continue to see the situation differently- but unlike many, we can discuss that respectfully and objectively.

Trump has done a great deal of good things for the country; the personal issues were allowed to become virtually the only issue, drowning out the rest.
What people see as wrong depends on what they decide to say counts- and what side they want to see prevail. But there must be a balance in the way people consider these things, and that has ceased to exist. There is no question that Trump is unlike the politicians of the past, but those past administrations have failed to accomplish much that really worked well- and the public has long said we need someone with business-like approach. They got that in Trump, but many people want the good results wrapped in same smooth-talking package they were used to. This the immaculate conception, the omelette made without breaking the eggs. That never happens; draining the swamp is always going to piss off the alligators.

I'll point out one very glaring example- The huge uproar and attacks on Trump, blaming him for keeping kids in cages and being so unfeeling to the immigrant situation.
Millions of people bought into that and tried to imply he was evil incarnate.

However- The regulations that precipitated an unwarranted influx of unaccompanied minors were not created by Trump.
The regulations that determined how this situation was handled were not created by Trump.
The facilities where these minors were kept were not built by or under Trump.
In fact- all of those things were created by Obama, yet nobody objected or trashed Obama at the time, nor did they give any weight to his role when they were trashing Trump for enforcing the policies Obama had created.

This is the new and irresponsible way of protesting what we don't like, generating emotions we blame those we don't like for causing feelings we ourselves allow. It has not only become acceptable- but popular and something such people are proud of.
When any group of people allow hate to make them discard their basic respect for justice and for themselves, it has corrupted them. When they allow hate to cause them to ignore facts not in line with their hostility, it has blinded them. This is the political situation today- judgment is reached in a superficial fashion and depends on what people wish to believe rather than the sum of relevant evidence.

This is a very dangerous climate. Anyone who values freedom and justice should be deeply offended by what has happened- and understand that things we have trusted all our lives, such as the integrity of the press, no longer exist. They should understand the facade of ethical conduct among politicians no longer exists- And especially, that no one person can or did make that happen to them... and that they alone are responsible for what they feel as well as how they act.

 

Not that much, though it was fun at times...

Seriously now, you seem to have a problem accepting how the US government works. You see there is more than 1 political party in the US; at times, the dems are in charge, at times the repubs are in charge; on 3 levels: President, house and senate.

[I know you would prefer to live in a country where there is only 1 party, provided it would be the "good" one of course.]

At times, the President is supported by the senate, at times by the House, at times by both.
Very often, either the house or the senate majority is from the "other" party than the President's. You then have what is called an opposition and, as the President cannot always decide everything on his own, he often needs to reach compromises with an adverse majority. This is not always possible either since "The duty of the opposition is to oppose" as a famous English politician once said.

So the repubs oppose e.g. Obama when they don't like what Obama wants to do, and, conversely the dems oppose Trump when they find Trump's projects unacceptable. The degree of opposition varies according the various projects presented by the President, but also according to the relationship they are developing.
And here, Trump was at a disadvantage when he lost the House majority, because of his despicable personnality.

I said before that Hillary was far from being likeable imho, but Trump... really what went through the repubs minds to choose that guy???!!!

I'm absolutely sure that the opposition to a repub President wouldn't have been as fierce as it was if he had been a decent man.

Unfortunately, one can't change their natural behavior. Trump never even tried to be presidential.

 

If you will argue how government works, then you would argue for support of the candidate who one, doing our best to work together. That's the tradition we have always followed.
You would not support an agenda that would attempt to block everything that president did, regardless of value or validity- just because he might get credit.
You would not tolerate your politicians abandoning even the facade of integrity and resorting to childish tantrums and viciousness.
I would expect better conduct from all of them- rather than excuse them with "Trump made me do it".

Trump is responsible for what he does and who he is. The rest of the citizens in this nation including politicians are too- personally responsible for their own conduct, and Trump didn't turn any of them into asshats who weren't already there, even if they kept it hidden in public.

People who wanted Trump to be "presidential" wanted him to act like past presidents- and all those people and complained about those nice-speaking presidents making promises that were never kept, doing nothing while the nation stagnated. Trump was elected because he wasn't like them, and would put getting thing done ahead of patronizing you.

Trump's biggest mistake was over-estimating the patriotism, the maturity and the integrity of the average American.

 

To me, Trump did turn a few of his supporters into asshats, as you call them; the most obvious example being Lindsey Graham who I thought was a decent man untill 2017.

A strong President would be able to take strong decisions without constantly insulting everyone who didn't agree with him. In doing that he only showed he actually is a weak man, as often reported by people in his entourage.

For all your discourse about the citizens' responsibility, I don't remember reading you define even once Trump as the despicable person that he is.

 

You say you evaluate a man by how much crap he will take from you before he tells you off?

You seem to forget that from the moment he announced he would run- the mockery, slander and general character assassinations began immediately and never stopped. IF they were better than Trump- where was their self respect? Seems it vaporized, and they felt justified then and now in making fools of themselves. Before he was elected, there were people in congress planning to impeach him if he was. They weren't waiting to see how he would do; they hated him when he dared to run. I don't have a problem saying Trump would have been wise to be more humble and restrained, to let much go by without response. I actually wrote him a letter a while back suggesting he do that. Regardless of what Trump may be, the leaders of the democratic party have soiled themselves and the party for generations- and far lower on the scale than Trump.

Should Joe expect any better treatment than the dems gave Trump?
He probably will get it, because the people on the other side still value their self-respect.

Right now, 56% of Americans say they are better off than they were four years ago. When Obama's term ended that same metric was 45%. When Bush left, it was 47%.
Biden inherits an amazingly resilient economy from Trump, despite the unprecedented and difficult conditions. Consumer confidence is high and spending is shockingly robust; retail sales in October were up 6% over the year before. We have a record level stock market, business still expanding, home demand high and values rising, companies hiring, a good part of the pandemic unemployment already down- about half what it was, and pandemic vaccines have been created and starting distribution in unprecedented record time. That's Trump's legacy- not his response insults to insulting people. Any person with a shred of wisdom would realize that those are the things make a real difference, while calling a jerk a jerk means nothing- and neither does posturing to please the gullible in terms of making good things happen.

You have been fooled most of your life- politicians are never nice guys, the game is far too dirty and rough for such people to survive. Politicians have historically been nice in public and ruthless predators in private- however, they put on a fake front in public and speak respectfully to their political enemies to make you think they are nice guys, and the public buys it. Trump was not a politician, and he was transparent and real- which those who prefer the comfortable lies didn't like. Those people would hire a pilot because he had a nice uniform instead of one who could fly the plane. They deserve to be patronized and screwed over.

JFK's father Joe, famous in his own right politically, told JFK this: "What you are doesn't matter in politics. What people think you are matters".

We have now elected a person highly skilled in that ability to deceive, a man with 47 years of political pandering experience but virtually nothing in accomplishments to his credit. You're never going to see the real Joe Biden by looking at the facade; you have to be able to see past that and read the person- if you can, and if you have the courage to do so.

Now, watch Joe blow the fine legacy he has inherited. Even Obama once said "Never underestimate Joe's ability to F*** things up".

 

I'm kind of amazed that you can say that of Graham, and nothing of Adam Schiff, who would be the poster boy if we had posters for asshats.