Let's face the facts: Trump is not lying about election fraud

A lie implies he's making a statement that he knows to be false. I am convinced that Trump actually believes there was widespread fraud. Before the election, he was convinced he would win because of the crowds at his rallies, and because he believes he's a winner. He believed he could only lose if there was fraud. When the vote counts showed him behind, he "knew" there HAD to be fraud. Consequently, he treated every irregularity, every rumor, and every suspicion, as confirmed fact. that suggested the vote was fraudulent.

Does it matter if it's a lie or a false belief? Yes, because his believing this absurdity tells us something about the man and the way he thinks. It tells us something about his judgment. Dismissing his statements as lies gives him too much credit, and it provides some cover for his supporters. There's some truth to the statement "all politicians lie". I suspect they're right: Trump doesn't lie more than other politicians. He believes most of the untruths he posts. He believed Obama was born in Kenya, and he believed that made him ineligible to be President, and he believes the Dominion voting system is rigged. He believes that vote counters are so completely untrustworthy, that if Trump loyalists can't closely examine every aspect of the counting ,that they will get away with fraud. He believes the courts that ruled against his suits are corrupt, because they ruled against him. He believes Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger is an enemy of the people because he's saying the election was honest. He believes his own Cybersecurity expert, Chris Krebs, was lying because he said something contrary to the conspiracy theory Trump believes.

If he thinks this way about the election, why should anyone trust his judgment about ANYthing? Having such a man as President is dangerous. Thank goodness he lost.

 

Explain how Biden won in four data dumps between 1 and 6 am.

 

There are so many irregularities it is a monumental task to incorporate in one lawsuit. Then there are all the democrats claiming that the dominion machines were the lowest cost least secure choice before 2020 now suddenly silent.

 

I don't really want to go back and forth with you, or other Trump supporters, about whether or not there was actually widespread fraud. I'm looking for responses from people, Republicans and Democrats, who realize Trump actually lost the election and accept the reality that no case has been made for widespread fraud. If you think we're all crazy, start a separate thread about that.

 

Still unverifiable but it appears you are looking for an echo chamber. Whatever gives you fuzzies.

 

Internet rumors are not proof of "irregularities". Sorry, dude.

 

I believe there are some Republicans on this forum who accept the fact that Trump lost and was not actually cheated. Also, there are Democrats who believe Trump is lying. I'm hoping to get responses, and even pushback, from folks like these. I've engaged with people that have your point of view in other threads, and will continue to do that, but there's no need for yet another thread for people to argue about whether or not Trump was cheated.

 

Documented, witnessed, and even complained about by democrats up to 2020.

 

Internet rumors are not proof of irregularities.

Trump lawyers stand on the court house steps and yell, "Fraud!"
But as soon as they get into the court, where lying can get them disbarred or censured, they drop the fraud claims.

 

As far as I know, they are like 1 and 33 now or something like that?


And in the states that they funded hand recounts, Bidens lead actually increased afterwards.

 

I would agree if not for the specific remarks that are so plainly false, like him claiming that some states had a turnout that was above 100%, when we know for a fact that no state was able to get so much as a 80% turnout

 

tons of mail in votes shipped out like those supermarket coupon flyers. Mail in ballots should ONLY be sent to those who request them. @Asherah is right though, it has to be PROVEN. Still, lets not pretend some shady business went down this election. All I have to say is, karma sucks and cheating never goes completely unpunished.

 

Translation: Yes the Dem Party obvioulsy colluded with swing state party officials to cheat Biden into the Oval Office but since it cannot -- tecnically -- be proven on a scale large enough to matter . . . the 'ends justifies the means' Dem Party can safely celebrate a stolen . . . win. Nice!

 

You sure locked in on Russia... Just sayin...

 

Psst . . . when you 'recount' without auditing the validity of ANY of the ballots then that is not a meaninfgul recount. That is just more of the same sort of cheating and going through the motions in front of a leftist-loyal press while smirking up one's sleeve.

 

Lol...it’s like they have no clue about how our legal system works.

 

LMAO...whatever gets you through the night, dude.
Meanwhile on planet earth, everyone knows trump is a whiny sore loser who is trying to destroy our democratic system to keep himself in power.

 

I have said multiple times that I was fine with letting the legal process play out. While it hasn't quite finished, it's pretty obvious that nothing will come of it. Further, the nature of the accusations that I've seen absurd - for example, the accusations against Dominion are typical conspiracy theory nonsense. Trump has a history of promoting conspiracy theories, and this is just the latest.

Nevertheless, I invite you to point me at some credible evidence.

 

because in some states they counted the in person ballots before they counted the mail in ones.

 

Given the human factor, "irregularities" are to be expected. In particular, paper ballots require more human intervention than machine votes. But it seems every human error is treated by conspiracy theorists as confirming the irrational belief they start with.

You mention the Dominion conspiracy theory. Point me at some credible evidence it's rigged. All I've seen is a jumping to conclusions of human error, and a self-defeating affidavit from someone who claims to have been present at a meeting with Cesar Chavez. Got anything else?

 

Four years as president would seem to prove he isn't dangerous.

But go ahead and warn people.

You do know that pretty soon you are going to have to deal with Biden don't you.

The guy just ended up in the hospital from playing with his dog, that seems a little more alarming then Trump launching nukes at whoever you think he wants to blow up this week.

 

The fundamental problem with your position is that it begins with the irrational assumption there was widespread fraud. From that basis, you pounce on every human error as "confirmation" of what you already believe.

 

(Shrug) It's no skin off my nose; but leftists are dreaming if they think it will be any sort of smooth sailing for the Dem Party after openly stealing the presidential election. It's going to give new meaning to the term, "elections have consequences." Meanwhile enjoy your . . . 'victory'.

 

The danger has been his irrational judgment, and we've seen examples of it. In particular, his decision to abandon the nuclear deal with Iran, his giving away national security secrets to Russia, and his refusal to even acknowledge their interference in elections while disputing the assertions of the intelligence community within his own administration. He's spouted many absurdities about Covid, and now this election fraud nonsense - which many of his followers blindly accept, damaging trust in the election process.

 

It's sad that so many blindly accept Trump's irrational claim that the election was stolen. Do you make a habit of accepting conspiracy theories?