Success in England!

We weren't forced to stay at home.

 

Most people queueing and inside stores wear masks. Most people walking outside did not wear masks. We are actually quite good at social distancing inside and outside

 

Are you forced to wear a mask when you enter a store?

 

I'm just pointing out that everything the military tried to teach you about caring for those around you, for protecting yourself and others, for vlunatarily taking risk and ignoring comfort in doing that - all these theings ou simply didn't learn.

You say that the minute you get off the base, your back to whining and not giving a crap about others.

My service isn't military, so what do I know.

But, I'm seriously hoping our military is actually doing better than that.

 

Our military, and my men, have FAR bigger problems than a virus with an EXTREMELY low mortality rate and a high level of false positives.

If you think the military is worrying about COVID this much, then you need to speak to your local recruiter. We actually have foreign problems that involve getting shot at. Which do you think the military should care more about?

 

The Dakotas have been absolute disaster zones. I don't see anything indicating that has changed. I'm not ready to give a lot of credit for coming down from the peaks they reached in this last wave. And, I've heard of nothing that makes me think there has been lasting change in the way people are fighting this virus there.

No place on Earth that I've heard of has reached anything like "herd immunity" according to epidemiologists. I'd be interested to hear of such a place.

Yes, behaviors do change like with meat packing plants. They don't give a crap, so the infection rate soars. It was made worse by Trump neutering CDC and OSHA and then indemnifying meat packers against all charges of irresponsible behavior. So, management went monumentally irresponsible. Then, they closed down and the rate of new infections went down.

I think that's what was done in England, only they did it artificially rather than waiting for explosions caused by an uninformed and uncaring populace overrunning hospitals and wrecking havoc on the population.

 

As stated in my text and what I cited the lockdown was not 100%.

This is an unfortunate problem in communicatin. People hear "lockdown" and then start talking Stalin.

We probably wouldn't even need to SAY that word if people were to act responsibly.

The plan for opening our economy that is present on whitehouse.gov was created by the CDC and reviewed by the executive branch as well as leaders of industry.

Yet, our federal government REFUSES to get behind that plan - a plan for OPENING our economy!!

It's time we learned how to think about communicable disease better than that, especially since there are numerous strainst of COVID and other diseases that can and will enter the human population, the COVID we have is mutating.

This is NOT a "won and done" thing.

 

We have to learn how to run businesses without killing people under the conditions that exist.

One way is documented on whitehouse.gov.

Pretending that it has to be the wild west or 100% lockdown is just plain nonsense. There are measures that ARE possible and DO allow both.

But, they do take commitment and some amount of organization - NEITHER of which we have.

Of course, every American can help by taking the very well known measures stated by epidemiologists. But, we even refuse to do THAT.

In too many places, having our businesses open is NOT enough of a goal to even have people wear a MASK!!!

How does THAT get fixed??

 

All good points.

Air traffic this Thanksgiving season was more than half the normal volume.

The idea that people are following guidelines within their homes hits me as HIGHLY unlikely.

 

Surely not by having the gov decide who gets to earn a living and who does not. A dictators wet dream.

 

What you're missing is that the character required is the same.

And, you're missing that we're losing WAY more Americans to COVID than we are to ME terrorists. So, while the risks and scarifices of those serving in our military are serious and to be given every respect, we also have doctors and nurses who are coming out of retirement to save people's lifes when they themselves are of an age that puts them in the danger zone. And, death stats show that.

I'm not saying the MILITARY should do more concerning COVID. Our military is chartered to address a different problem set - just like our first responders, doctors and nurses aren't chartered to address foreign aggression.

I AM saying that the lessons our military teaches concerning character, concerning sacrifice, concerning care for Americans and America - THESE things all apply regardless of what clothing you're wearing.

When you walk out onto our streents, THOSE things need to come with you. Those lessons are serious - not something you take on and then just cast aside.

And, there's no excuse for those of us who haven't been in the military, either. We ALL need that character.

Seriously, I thought our military made this kind of stuff very clear.

Do you think that cadets coming out of our OTS's are told that the values they are taught only apply in a war zone?

 

We do not have a dictatorship. We are a democratic republic. We get to vote. All this "dictator" talk I hear is just plain crap.

Our government DOES play a VERY serious role in limiting behavior that is dangerous to others. We set speed limits. We set food safety standars. We set water standards. We have employment regulation, as we need everyone working and working in safety. Etc.

The idea that our government can't be allowed to take measures against a pandemic is so stupid I just don't even know what peole are THINKING.

 

Well I'm in the UK and work in care, so personally am at high risk.. 9 people I knew have gone this year due to the virus. I always wear my mask for shopping, transport etc.

Yeah its not great, and I haven't seen many friends this year - been lucky enough to never have been out of work.

small sacrifice is all it takes, I never understand what 'freedoms' are taken away by taking precautions! either people are just silly or have no regard
for anyone but themselves.

I still see daily groups of people together without PPE and ignoring what is advised - if everyone came together this could easily be controlled

 

Forced implies that we don't wish to wear masks.
In my local town there is full compliance. I have only left home 3 times to shop for food and I've not seen anyone not wearing a mask instore.

 

Agree, and it is getting as this in UK - Binary thinking... black or white, up or down, 1 or 0 - no inbetween. Didn't Bush Jr one say,
and I'm paraphrasing - 'You either with us, or against us' ?

Everyone should do their part as much as possible, for themselves, for loved ones and family and just out of respect for other people trying to live their lives

 

Sad world you live in. But enjoy it if that's what your government requires of you lol

 

What I think, is that you don't understand the function of the military vs. EMS. We don't cry over a virus with a TINY mortality rate. We focus our efforts on foreign hacking and the wars our last 3 administrations have had us in... do you want us to help you go to the grocery store without being scared of the big bad virus? LOL

 

Have you ever been in a disaster zone? What leads you to believe that the Dakotas look like one?

 

Really? I think it would be sad to live in a world where nobody cares for the lives of others. A place where some notion of personal freedom outweighs the freedom of others not to be infected by thoughtless, selfish, cry-babies who can't wear a small piece of cloth over their faces.

 

I’m not interested in giving “credit” to anyone. I simply pointed out the fact infection rates rise, peak, and fall in very similar fashion regardless of what mitigation practices are in place. Sure, ND and SD have had a rough go. Just like many states with mitigations and similar death rates. And no, SD for sure hasn’t done much for mitigation. Yet rates fall the same as in U.K. It doesn’t have to be a competition. We can discuss facts without having to demonize or give “credit”. We really shouldn’t be emotional about this stuff.

Well, you will hear a lot of stuff from me you won’t hear from your sources. I know it’s frustrating because my posts are based on solid, verifiable biological facts and accepted data.

So first off almost everyone has a misconception about what herd immunity is. Herd immunity by definition refers to “populations”. So we can use the term herd immunity in relation to any population. For example, we could accurately state a family of 4 who all have antibodies or memory B cells from past infection has reached herd immunity. We can branch out from there. Many believe the city of Manaus in Brazil has reached or is very near herd immunity as a population. I’ve made a solid case parts of NYC have as well here in the past. Today’s data still supports my case.

To be clear as I always have in the past, I’m not condoning policy to achieve natural herd immunity and I’m not claiming any state or country has achieved it. But it’s a fact it exists in certain populations.

Another common misconception about herd immunity is people believe it’s a hard number that can’t change. Because it’s based on the R naught of the pathogen/disease it can change. My example of coinfection in my previous post is something that could take a population that has reached herd immunity back to an R naught above 1.

As a side note, some research has been done on coinfection in C19. What little there is pretty clearly shows coinfections increase mortality rates. Probably a discussion for another thread, but in certain cases, people who would have lived through C19 are dead from a bacterial or fungal coinfection. That’s interesting to me because we always hear people with heart disease who die “from” C19 always die from C19. It’s said C19 certainly killed them because if they didn’t catch C19 they would still be alive. Well, now we have lots of evidence people with C19 are dying not because they have C19, but because of a coinfection. Should we count their deaths as C19 even though that isn’t what killed them? Food for thought for the thinkers here.

Well, much of that isn’t true. My brother in law works at a beef packing plant. Mitigations were implemented by management. The plant only closed for a couple days for extra cleaning. But behavior of employees outside the plant did not change. That demographic is the least likely to be seen wearing a mask or social distancing still today.

Well, I’m glad everyone is happy with England and their success. But the fact remains there are places that did not lock down that have seen almost identical decreases in infection rates.

 

No, @WillReadmore has not been in combat. He or she doesn't know what an actual DZ looks like

 

You're entirely wrong. Govts CAN and DO and HAVE stopped the virus. My own Govt has done it - each time they set out to do so. New Zealand has done it. Vietnam has done it. Taiwan has done it. Korea is on the way. Singapore is on the way. Thailand is close.

It's very strange to see Americans still pretending they can't see the successes of the East. It's a very ****ing big elephant in the room.

 

Indeed. A full lockdown means the virus literally can't spread. It has nowhere to go. It dies.

 

1) 100% lockdowns work, 100%. The virus cannot move to its next victim when there is no next victim to move to. It's finished.

2) Calling anything less than mandatory 'marital law' lockdown a lockdown, is silly. It's more like 'fingers crossed and hope for the best'. Even sillier to talk Stalin, even when it's the real thing (as we had here). Which nation is today mask free, economy on the rise for the first time in 2020, and life back to 2019 normalcy and freedoms? My country .. the 'Stalinised' country. America is still disabled by COVID. Freedoms limited, economy suffering, masks mandatory, etc etc.

3) People will never act responsibly in large enough numbers to make lockdowns optional. It must be via law.

 

It won't last very long.

Are you going to have to continue this level of lockdown to maintain the current rates? And that will go on nearly forever.

You're only slowing things down. Eventually big swaths of the population are still going to get it.