PA allows nursing homes, hospitals and businesses to face COVID-19 claims

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by rkhames, Nov 30, 2020.

PF does not allow misinformation. However, please note that posts could occasionally contain content in violation of our policies prior to our staff intervening. We urge you to seek reliable alternate sources to verify information you read in this forum.

  1. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,227
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Snip~
    Pennsylvania Governor Tom Wolf vetoed a Republican-backed bill Monday that would have made it harder to sue schools, nursing homes and businesses for coronavirus-related claims.

    The Democratic governor cited what he called the legislation's broad liability protections that "invites the potential for carelessness and a disregard for public safety."

    It would have essentially protected businesses and other entities that flout government measures intended to curb the spread of COVID-19, Wolf said.

    "At a time when the COVID-19 virus is spreading rapidly, we need to be taking measures to ensure compliance with public health orders and improve safety practices," Wolf said in his veto message. "We should not be providing protection for noncompliance or carelessness."
    ~ Snip
    https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy...hospitals-and-businesses-to-face-covid-claims

    I can understand Hospitals and Nursing Homes, but Businesses?

    How can someone prove that they got COVID-19 from a certain business?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  2. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    32,222
    Likes Received:
    12,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Pull the race card. That usually works for the left wing law suits. Just toss it out there and see if it lands lol.
     
    joesnagg and Louisiana75 like this.
  3. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,227
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Who said that the only ones suing businesses will be a minority? Do you think that whites will not take the opportunity to make a windfall from these type of lawsuits?
     
  4. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    32,222
    Likes Received:
    12,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you agree the race card is the easiest way to get money...
     
  5. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,227
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, but only for minorities.
     
  6. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    By being employed there and getting it from a coworker because your business did not mandate employees follow proper protocols, conduct regular cleanings, etc, most likely.
     
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    any nursing home that did not separate their covid residents from others should be sued

    they should do this for the flu too, this should be common sense

    if you try your best to separate them and fail is one thing, to not even try is another
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  8. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,227
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have said the many times before. It is up to the individuals to protect themselves. They should not have to be told to follow the protocols. If a business threated to fire an individual for following the protocols, then you would have a point. But I have not heard of a single case where that happened. Further, they would still have to prove that they caught the Coronavirus from work, and not somewhere else. That is virtually impossible to do.
     
  9. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,227
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I could not agree with you more. As I stated in my OP, I can understand nursing homes and hospitals being sued. But not businesses.

    My wife was rehabilitating in nursing home/rehab center. There was an outbreak of the annual flu. They gave all the patients Tamiflu, but they did not sequester the sick patients. They were allowed to roam the facility. The nurses did not even wear mask in treating the sick patients. I ended up getting the flu from one of the nurses even though I had gotten the Flu shot that year. That facility ended up getting hit hard by the coronavirus. I am glad my wife was not still there.
     
  10. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is not impossible to prove when 250 people in the same plant gets the virus at the same time.
     
  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I would allow people to sue businesses where they refused to comply with federal recommendations and had a outbreak of many employees as a result

    this is why most businesses follow the cdc guidelines

    that said, this is the republican #1 ask for a stimulus, no liability for businesses that did not follow cdc guidelines, so sure that will pass in the next bill as Republicans said they won't sign a bill without it
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  12. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,664
    Likes Received:
    6,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Seems impossible to prove.

    Your employer or coworkers can do nothing, or everything possible, and you can still catch it from a random source. This is a boon for lawyers. Who probably lobbied pretty hard for this.
     
    joesnagg likes this.
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    this is why most try to follow the guidelines, this way if sued they can say the tried.... it's the ones that did not try at all that juries may not be so kind too
     
  14. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Proof beyond a reasonable doubt isn't the standard in civil trials.
     
  15. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,664
    Likes Received:
    6,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hence: boon for the lawyers. free money.
     
    joesnagg likes this.
  16. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    19,083
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No.

    Businesses who avoid and refuse to maintain good practices for mitigation of infection, be it COVID or anything other disease.

    I hope these get their pants sued off. It doesn't matter if the workers ignore the protections and practices the business has set up, the business is protected. But if the business doesn't
    The families trying to survive after the death of their partner or parents might feel like recklessness of the owners extra profits might feel like deserves a bit of their sacrifice too.
     
  17. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,664
    Likes Received:
    6,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Start with Cuomo and work your way down?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
    joesnagg likes this.
  18. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,380
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The burden of proof for liability or negligence is not altered between a covid case or a case involving a dangerous elevator shaft, an icy entrance way, a broken refrigeration unit, or improperly trained or monitored staff. You absolutely bring up a major obstacle for a successful lawsuit. That is not a political concern that should impact these bills. Its practical problem litigators will face in their suits. I think the states/ counties/ cities should be the right place to consider the emergency measures rather than national mandates a la Biden. I also think that states/counties/ cities should decide tort liability protection bills. I don't want Moscow Mitch to have any say in what Colorado wants to write in their Covid tort protection bill.
     
  19. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well it is not free. They have to buy a suit and some business cards and pay some filing fees, so it is more like overstock dot com money.
     
    Spim likes this.
  20. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,664
    Likes Received:
    6,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Lol.

    This might end up like the gulf oil spill, everybody & their sister will get in line for quick cash. Lawyers clean up
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
    joesnagg and Chrizton like this.
  21. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    19,083
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, the State Bar associations have an examination to pass for which many fail, and also be admitted to t. Along with at least enough research and documentation to convince a judge to laugh that attorney out of court. That is often not trivial! ALL of Trump's attorneys gave been laughed out of court (well, a few were simply rejected without public laughter), and Trump is a Billionaire! We know he MUST know about legalities, right?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  22. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,227
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree with most of what you posted. But COVID-19 negligence case would be even harder to prove then the examples that you gave. In the cases of "dangerous elevator shaft, an icy entrance way, a broken refrigeration unit, or improperly trained or monitored staff", you know where and how you were injured, But in a COVID-19 case involving a business, you would have to prove that the plaintiff contracted the virus from an employee of the business. In a case where the plaintiff is an employee of the business, then they would have to prove that the employer would not allow the employee to follow the protocols while working. As I said before, I can not find a single case where a business owner forbid employees to follow the protocols. Without such a ban, the judge would throw out the case. Because the plaintiff had the ability to protect themselves, but chose not to do so.

    While you do not want Moscow Mitch saying would be a national mandate, I would not want Crazy Nancy, Chucky Schumer or Sleepy Joe having a say in what happens here in Virginia. Further, the US Constitution prohibits the Federal Government for issuing a national mandate. The responsibility for issuing a mask mandate rests with the State. That is why Biden is trying to Sleepy Joe is trying to convince State Governors to implement their own mask mandate. Here in Virginia, the Governor issued his own mask mandate, but it is not enforceable without the a legislative bill outlining what the penalties will be for violating the mandate. So far, the Commonwealth Legislature has not created a bill to address the issue. The Governor's mandate said that the enforcement would fall on the Department of Health instead of the police. Yet, that government agency does not have the ability or manpower to enforce the wearing of masks As a result, most business have a sign that states that masks are required in their facility, but they do not enforce it. The only place around here that will not allow a customer without a mask, believe it or not, is Walmart.
     
  23. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,227
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You obviously live in a different state then I do. Here in Virginia, business have signs up that states that Masks and Social Distancing are required at all times, but they do not enforce that rule. Yesterday, I went to the 7-11 down the street from me. I counted 10 customers and four employees in the store at the time. Yet, I was the only one wearing a mask. While I maintained 6 feet between the customer ahead me, the person behind me was so close, I could feel his breath on my neck. I asked him to back up, but he refused to.

    As I keep pointing out, there owner of the business would have to prohibit the following of COVID-19 protocols by their employees. Without such a ban, then the responsibility to protect themselves rests with the employee and not the employer.
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    they have the signs to try to protect themselves legally, because exactly what I said, you better be able to say you tried, or a jury probably not going to find in your favor
     
  25. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,227
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The point is that the employees chose not to follow the protocols, and that means the employer is not liable for anything. Unless the employer refuses to allow employees to wear masks. Around here, every business is required to have a sheet of plexiglass between the customer and employee, but that does not protect one employee from infecting another employee. Yet, as long as the business is following state guidelines, they are not liable. That includes the state of Pennsylvania.
     

Share This Page