The Time Trump Thought ‘Western Liberalism’ Meant California

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Dec 1, 2020.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's small things like this, which speak volumes. No president in history has been so uninformed about history that they wouldn't undertand what the terms 'liberal democracy' or ' liberal western democracy' mean.

    One thing they do NOT mean, is 'liberal California'. These terms have a long historical context and use. If you do not know what the terms mean, then learn them. Thing is, it's unimaginable that a world leader of a liberal democracy like America would not understand what it meant. Yet, that is precisely where we are with Trump, a veritable ignoramus. This is yet one more bit of evidence in a long litany of them that Trump is/was unfit for the office he holds.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/202...ught-western-liberalism-meant-california.html

    In June 2019, at the end of the G20 summit in Japan, New York Times reporter Peter Baker asked President Trump what he made of recent comments by Russian president Vladimir Putin that western-style liberalism was obsolete. Trump’s answer managed to combine all his trademark menace, stupidity, and comic narcissism.

    By “western liberalism,” Putin meant that democracy as it is practiced in Western Europe and the United States (with a free press, rule of law, and so on) is decadent and weak. Trump understood “western” to mean the west coast of the United States” and “liberalism” to mean the progressive aims of the Democratic party.

    Proceeding from his inability to understand the terms of this debate, which encompasses the fundamental international ideological struggle of the post–Cold War era, he found himself caught between two characteristic desires. Trump did not want to insult Putin, but he also did not want to accept blame. He resolved the dilemma by agreeing that yes, liberals had made the West Coast terrible, but no, it was not the president’s fault:

    “Well, he may feel that way. He says what’s going on. I guess you look at what’s happening in Los Angeles, where it’s so sad to look, and what’s happening in San Francisco, and a couple other cities which are run by an extraordinary group of liberal people, I don’t know what they’re thinking but he does see things that are happening in the United States that would probably preclude him from saying how wonderful it is. At the same time, he congratulated me as every other leader of every other country did for what we’ve done economically.”

    As Trump remarks go, this one was unusually rich in its interpretive possibilities. On the surface, he was agreeing with his ally’s denunciation of liberal democracy. However, going a little deeper, he did not really endorse Putin’s attack on democracy so much as he failed to understand it. But, going a little deeper still, Trump does understand Putin’s worldview at some level, and his submissiveness to the Russian strongman revealed an instinctive, sub-ideological authoritarianism that he cannot put into words.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
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  2. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump is over the age of 35, a natural born citizen, and got more than 270 electoral college votes in 2016. That makes him fit for office.
     
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  3. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Your definition of fit is seriously lacking.
     
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  4. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hmm, the constitution doesn't seem to think so.
     
  5. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    The constitution describes requirements, not fitness.
     
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  6. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What's the distinction - they seem like one and the same to me.
     
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  7. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    No, it doesn't. It only proves he is good at self promotion, nothing more.
     
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  8. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If not the constitution, where else are we meant to get out definition of fitness for office? And what relevance does this alternate definition have where it conflicts with the constitution's?
     
  9. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    35 and natural citizen are requirements. Lots of those people out there. Very few are fit to be president.
     
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  10. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, there is a rather novel concept called.........

    Common sense, things like, oh, i dunno, red flags, .... maybe.......

    1. Inability to speak in compound sentences ( talks like a 5th grader)
    2. Inability to show humility & empathy
    3. Party to over 3500 lawsuits in his life ( vastly more than someone of his station )
    4. Over 100 contractors have sued him for non payment
    5. Fornicated with porn star a month after his newly wed wife gave birth
    6. Solicits Russia to commit cyber espionage on his opposition
    7. Obsequious behavior to dictators
    8. History of conduct grossly unbecoming of a president ( His horrific treatment of the good people of Aberdeenshire, Scotland, for example, his attempt to use eminent domain to kick a widow from her home in order to build a limo garage, his using the courts as a weapon, etc., )
    9. His egregious lack of knowledge of history, and basic concepts of civics ( for example, Putin asked Trump what he thought about the failure of 'western liberal democracy' and Trump thought he was talking about California and not the historical meaning of the term as it applies to western nations, Europe, ie., freedom of speech, rule of law, etc., a plight which is mindbogglingly ignorant for a man of seeking the Presidency, and this is but one tiny example of a litany of examples ).
    10. Propensity for egregious over-the-top-beyond-the-pale lies and conspiracy theories, such as Obama was born in Kenya, Climate change is a 'chinese hoax'.
    11. Suing an author for defamation, and what was the defamation? The author called Trump a 'millionaire' and not a 'billionaire'.
    12. Sued a comedian because the comedian failed to give him $5 million in a joke he made on TV ( jokes are not 'contracts' ). What was the joke? He promised Trump $5 million of he could prove Trump wasn't the lovechild of his mother and an orangutan. Note that the lawsuit wasn't defamation, it was 'breach of contract'. Naturally, the judge laughed it out of court.

    ya think?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  11. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Additional data on the constitution's meanings are supplied in the federalist papers, which does provide light on desirable traits expected of electors, and by logical extension, the presidents for whom they cast their ballot.

    See, much of the constitution is founded on the concept that our elected leaders would be honorable men acting in good faith, such that, every little damn thing that would be obvious to reasonable persons needn't be spelled out in a constitution, which is not supposed to provide the kind of detail one would see in codes of law.

    To illustrate this point, look up the term 'Gus' which has evolved into an expression, such as , 'they pulled a Gus on us'. made popular by the movie of that name, brought to public consciousness by Bill Maher.

    See, the film is about the fact that in the NFL rule book, it doesn't specifically state that the Place Kicker has to be a human, so the team brings in a donkey named Gus (who was made famous via a soccer team that pulled the same stunt ) that can kick the ball better than any human.

    Do you see the point?

    Nah, I don't think you do.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_(1976_film)
     
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  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Is this like the time Obama thought there were 58 states or Biden thought Russia was still the Soviet union? Note with Biden we could go on for days and back for decades.
     
  13. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If the people elected such an individual under constitutional procedures what use is your standard for fitness for office other than your view of who should be President?

    And what use does that have? You should have voted and ensured that although Trump was over 35 in 2016, he wouldn't meet that other 270 elector qualification.

    I don't cry because Biden won. May the better man win.
     
  14. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Apparently he thinks anyone over 35 and a natural citizen is fit to run the country. I’m sure he’s not alone in his thinking. Yikes.
     
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  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    all this proves is that Trump is THE most dangerous sub species of humanity known to exist because he is a TWONK
    upload_2020-12-3_9-35-25.jpeg

    Twonks are convinced that they know more than experts and that thier opinion is invaluable no matter what subject they weigh in on
     
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  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    if the Democrats win the Senate there might be some discussions and actions around “fitness for office” and I would not be surprised if a new set of rules comes into play like

    1. disclosure of taxes
    2. No outstanding fraud allegations
    3. No previous bankruptcies
    4. Fewer than 300 previous court cases
    5. The ability to remember a list beyond 5 objects in plain sight (person woman man camera tv)
    6. Independent medical examination that includes a psychological, mental and physical review
    7. No history of ***** grabbing
     
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  17. HockeyDad

    HockeyDad Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We do not have a free press. We have a press owned by a few billionaires, that is why every MSM outlet spews the exact same propaganda. That "free press" is actively working to suppress the alternative press (ordinary Americans). It has done some very real damage to the alternative press in the past four years, the question is whether they will be able to kill it completely.

    Pretending we have a rule of law after the past nine months is laughable. We have laws for conservatives and the little people, laws apparently do not apply to the elite or "peaceful protesters".
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  18. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Trump really is a Clueless IDIOT.

    The IMBECILE has no intellectual curiosity.

    The Pathetic MORON got called out for his ludicrous impossible conspiracies.

    Advisor: But, Mr. President that Far-Fetched Conspiracy Theory makes no sense, haven't you ever heard of Occam's Razor.

    Trump: Sure. That is the latest thing from Gillette
    .
     
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  19. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Nah. More like a Clorox drip.
     
  20. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    The very fact that we have sooo many wild-ass conspiracy theories still floating around now and believed by the you-know-whos completely undermines your assertion of there not being a free press.
     
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  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm just saying there is such a concept as 'unfit' for office, though some may differ on specifics.
     
  22. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    We have a free press within the framework of a neoliberal landscape, yes.

    But, compared to China and Russia, it's free.

    Rule of law is something to be strived for, though it's not always achieved.
     
  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    classic example of defining deviance down. If your standard for a free press is freer than China you have almost no standard at all.
     
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    You mean what Biden's brain has been on for the last 30 years?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  25. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Uh...no. That's really dumb.
     
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