DEBUNKING the anti-masker lies and misrepresentation of the so called "Danish Study"

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by apexofpurple, Nov 22, 2020.

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  1. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    My first thought was to spam the forum with every article that's coming out on this subject; to just to really stick it to the anti-maskers and show them how their conspiracy theorists bloggers are so totally outnumbered by actual doctors, actual scientists, and actual researchers. But that wouldn't have been constructive so I've picked a few choice ones and will combine them into this one thread, hence the self-made title.

    A year ago I would not have ever thought myself to be a proponent of censorship. But watching the various misinterpretations, misrepresentation, and outright bald-faced LIES being pushed about the efficacy of facemasks I've changed my mind. The conspiracy theories pushed by rubbish blogs and hack partisan talking heads come at a price, that price is human lives, and it must stop.

    Herein witness the debunking of yet another one of these anti-masker myths; the so called 'Danish study'.

     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  2. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When did this even become as issue.

    We all know masks won't fully protect anyone.
     
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  3. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    I think I'm correct on this - but masks became an issue early on in the pandemic after Pres Trump boasted that the US would become a huge world leader in mask production. Well of course it didn't happen overnight and left wing media was giving him all sorts of crap about it because of course they would. Shortly after Pres Trump effectively became a critic of masks, I believe in a defensive way to the left wing media being on his case about the shortage. It seems to me that this was the birth of the American anti-masker movement because as soon as he started to question and criticize mask efficacy we started seeing other GOP politicians doing it and then it became this thing for left and right to fight over.

    But for the other part if we take the word "fully" to mean functional 100% of the time then condoms won't fully prevent pregnancy, seat-belts wont fully prevent auto fatalities, and firearms wont fully prevent assaults and murders - but we still use these things because things don't have to be perfect to be of great benefit.
     
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  4. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not sure why you are attributing the movement to anyone other then the many people who don't want to wear them.

    Look at people protesting lockdowns all over the world, that has nothing to do with Trump either.

    I know many democrats that won't wear masks, even well known democrats are getting busted not using them, Pelosi was going to have an indoor dinner for congress that she later had to cancel because of feedback.
     
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  5. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    I'm not definitively saying it was Pres Trump that launched the anti-mask movement. From how I perceived the series of events at the time, prior to the President's remarks on PPE and subsequent media hit job I do not recall any widespread anti-mask sentiment. Furthermore I think we can agree that Pres Trump did make a couple anti-mask comments in those early months, plus refusing to wear one himself which just adds to the sentiment, and in time since the anti-mask reports and studies (as misrepresented or outright debunked as they are) do typically come from right-wing pundits, right-wing blogs, right-wing social media, etc. So I think its fair to say anti-masking is seen as a 'right-wing thing' here in the US - as for other countries well they have their unique dynamics as well I'm sure.

    But of course anyone can be an anti-masker because anyone can be selfish, or ignorant, or just a lazy sack, that doesn't require a political affiliation. Democrats certainly aren't innocent in this I mean, ****, how many dozens and dozens of super-spreader protests and riots have these clowns enjoyed in the last year and how many thousands have died as a result? Do Democrats enforce COVID restrictions on these? Hell no. Does the media care? Hell no.
     
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  6. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not all of us. Only those with curious minds and knowledge know that.

    True believers in the Church Orthodoxy act on faith and not on reason.
     
  7. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I go on long hikes with my dog and never get within 15 feet of another human. Please explain how imposing a $300. fine on me helps prevent the spread of Covid? When you want to divide people, first, assign a name like anti-maskers or deplorables and then build hatred from there.

    The real issue is not masks; it is government overreach. This is the same government that shut down mom n pop businesses so people had to crowd Walmart to buy the same item. Also the same government that goes to Hawaii to discuss how to impose travel restrictions on the rest of us. If we allow them to put us out of work to protect us from a 2% risk of death, what future abuses do we have to look forward to?

    How about we create a name for those who support government doing their thinking for them. We shall call them Subjects.
     
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  8. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    It became clear early on that masks only prevent some of the virus spores from leaving the mask when one sneezes. coughs, sings or whatever. The masks don't prevent the virus from getting to you. One only has to realize we can smell things around us while wearing a mask. That is what Trump was saying. Even so, he had companies make masks by the hundreds of millions for the world.
     
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  9. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol!

    Real masks clearly prevent significant of particulates from entering a wearers mose and mouth. The anti-mask propaganda refrain that a mask does no "good at all" is obvious at all.

    In a few months of the brand new epidemic before aerosol transmission established and the very worst world-wide shortages of masks existed (since Trump refused to return the even minimal recommended stocks were returned from the drawdowns.

    How did Trump make masks by the hundreds of millions for the world?

    Trump wouldn't do that until too later, and it still is the Chinese and others who are making most masks even counting the 3M, much of those are foreign charged at outrageous prices.
     
  10. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    It helps not to think of prevention as a binary state. A firefighters turnout gear can withstand a range of temperatures for a range of time before melting, igniting, or otherwise failing, thus keeping the person in it alive - exceed that range and it no longer 'prevents' death. But if we applied the same misconceptions about masks to turnout gear we'd have people running into burning buildings in their t-shirts and flip-flops because, well hey, if turnout gear doesn't keep me alive as I stand in a 4000 degree dicyanoacetylene fire for a few hours then its not 100% effective and so binary thinking wise turnout gear cannot prevent death. /s Mask filtration efficacy has its ranges as well. Give yourself the best chance you can by using the best materials you can and limit your exposure duration and risk.
     
  11. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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  12. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    The virus is many times the size of any of the compounds in smells
     
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  13. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    I'm bumping this because the debunked, false, misleading, FAKE NEWS thread continues to be at the top for this section.
     
  14. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    Looks to me like you've entered into zealot land. Good luck with that.
     
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  15. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    Contained within the very study that far-right trash blog erroneously claimed concluded that masks don't work is language from the very people who wrote it saying otherwise. It was fake news, it literally is the definition of fake news. But thanks for the bump!
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  16. jhil2020

    jhil2020 Well-Known Member

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    @apexofpurple
    You would prevent others from having individual thought outside consensus. This is wrong.
    Maybe not. Momentum is likely building due to the incessant moral impositions baked into all biosecurity messaging in elite discourse coming out of the Democratic-aligned faction. Trump does not actually lead public opinion on the right like he does in reverse for the left. His opponents lead public opinion in reverse on the right in the same way because negative partisanship and anger is what drives people into action and attentiveness. Haven't you noticed.
    "Stay indoors unless to protest against racism"
    "No increase in viral case totals associated with [mass street violence]"
    Is he selfish who wants to look after himself or is he selfish who would censor anyone impeding his effort to make homogenous thought along his own lines?
     
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  17. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    Negative. I would prevent, or at least place advisory, on the spread of materials known to be blatantly false and intentionally misleading when the consequence of believing in them is measured in the loss of life. The authors of the very study that so many far-right blogs have erroneously referenced as being 'proof' that masks do not work directly stated within said study that masks in fact do work. It is a bald faced lie and considering the damage it can do my opinion is that those who have the power to step in and shut down these dangerous lies have a responsibility to do so.

    Its not about individual thought, people can continue to believe these ridiculous anti-masker myths all they want. But they have absolutely no right to spread lies that put lives at risk. I cant believe I even need to point this out but each and every single 'freedom' that has been curtailed in our country's history was done so as a result of people abusing it to the determent of the common good.
     
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  18. jhil2020

    jhil2020 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not obligated to take a few examples of empirical research and apply the conclusions to my life. Nobody is.

    lol And we need to start with people refusing to wear paper masks? Okay, then I suggest we then look at dealing with news media because there is plenty of scholarly research detailing how media perpetuates fear, anger and war through making people believe things that aren't actually real. No more "free" press. Then maybe we look at religion, as there are too many religious zealots who harm the collective global wellbeing through their spreading of disputed lies. There will be acceptable beliefs and unacceptable ones and we'll all have to agree which are which. Then we can put laws in place which make impossible any transmission of unauthorized information, should they even dare to cross us again.

    Time to get everyone on the exact same page.

    Yes, we need to stop equating liberty with whatever is good for all. My good is not your good, so when my liberty (that which is unregulated) gets curtailed and the benefit of the common good is cited as a reason, I begin to question how others define freedom and common good and general will and liberty and so on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
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  19. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    One of the most prominent of bald-faced lies being circulated during this last year is that masks stop the spread of virus, yet you and others regurgitate it 24/7.

    Then when yet another study is released that contradicts your rosy view, you attack it. That is textbook denial.
     
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  20. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Not one person has stated that a mask provides 100% protection. Why are you making things up in a post about others lying?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
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  21. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    And yet you highlight the very reason why this anti-masker nonsense needs to be attacked. The very authors of the study your far-right blog claimed proves masks doesn't work said the exact opposite IN THE SAME DAMN STUDY! You fell for fake news. You fell for fake news. You. Fell. For. Fake. News.
     
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  22. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    This is an absolutely great statement. And in this instance here are the particulars: Your [everyone's] liberty to spread dangerous misinformation and lies on private platforms which you do not own is being addressed by those who define the common good via a body count. So now I ask, what is it you questioning about the goal of saving lives by limiting, or flagging, the spread of dangerous material which can produce the opposite outcome?
     
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  23. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a great post !!!!!!

    PERFECT !!!!!!
     
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  24. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It needs to be attacked so that society can be further divided.

    Truth is of no consequence to the zealot. All that matters is dogma and orthodoxy.

    Never discuss the many cases of those wearing masks becoming infected by the virus, because that is just too damn true to contemplate for the true believer.

    But attack your fellow man, THAT'S what it's all about. Onward christian soldiers. Attack and pepper spray is the mindset.
     
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  25. jhil2020

    jhil2020 Well-Known Member

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    Well I disagree with the framing that "our liberty is now being addressed" by "platforms we do not own". That is one way to frame it. Another way of framing it is to say that the permissible range of opinion is being constantly shrunken down smaller and smaller until people outside the sphere of consensus are called "dangerous".

    To answer your question, "why do you hate saving lives?", basically, I don't. But I don't see the virtue of censorship; one should be able to just win if they have a better argument, and I should be able to present mine as I see fit. If the other side wants to quit the argument, that is up to them, but it is not virtuous to appeal to govt or economic elites to censor opposing viewpoints until there is no more debate.

    In the big picture, I think your notion of what is right and wrong with regard to this debate is shortsighted. I mad this argument with regard to EO 13950 (Trump's conditioning federal funding to educational institutions on not teaching CRT). We don't need more regulation of our communication in society, and we shouldn't want anyone to intervene. And what happens when a new administration discontinues censorious intervention? You'll have accepted a jacket in the first snow of winter only to risk it being taken away again before the season is out.
     
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