If Trump gets state results thrown out, Biden doesn't need 270

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Ronstar, Nov 22, 2020.

  1. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Leave it to Alan Dershowitz to seal the deal on the law and facts.

    Everyone thinks that in order to become President, Biden needs 270 electoral votes and if Trump can get PA or Michigan or Wisconsin or Georgia disqualified, Biden may not get 270 votes and the election goes to the House as a contingent Election where Republicans have bigger numbers due to the election law.

    But this...is false!!!

    Constitution says the winner must get a majority of Electors certified, not 270 votes.

    So if somehow PA's electors dont get certified due to a judicial ruling, the number of total Electoral Votes goes from 538 to 518, which means Biden only needs 259 Electoral votes to win. And if PA and Georgia get thrown out, then it goes from 518 to 502, which means Biden needs 251 Electoral votes to win.

    Basically the ONLY way Trump can win is if PA, and Georgia, and Michigan, and Wisconsin, all have their Electoral votes rejected by the courts.

    and that, my friends, aint gonna happen.

    Thanks Alan, for making it clear as day.



    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/article/article-ii

    *********The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed;********
     
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  2. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If PA, GA, WI and MI are all thrown out, Biden would need 238 to win.

    he would have 244 Electoral votes without those states, Trump would have 232.

    Its hopeless for Trump, really is.
     
  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so now we offically know, its virtually impossible for Biden to lose.

    even if GA, PA, WI, MI results are tossed, Biden still wins with 244 electoral votes.

    i guess Trump could also throw out AZ and NV too.

    :p
     
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  4. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    basically Trump has to climb Mt Everest to win this election.

    :p
     
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  5. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Challenge accepted.
     
  6. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    good to know the chances of Trump winning, are basically 0.000000000000001
     
  7. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting. Thanks.
     
  8. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    it makes Biden's victory even more certain.

    Trump's only chance, is pretty impossible.

    i hope his lawyers are telling him this
     
  9. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    So it's just a matter of time.

    upload_2020-11-22_19-46-53.png
     
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  10. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    If Dirty Donald gets any voters votes thrown out just to further inflate his already gigantic ego he will guarantee his place in American history as a **** stain that blemished it.
     
  11. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    A fake just like the real Trump, a fake.
     
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  12. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Mostly but not precisely accurate. I suspect you mis-interpreted what Alan said, or he chose his words too loosely. It is a bit confusing, but electors are not certified; only their votes get certified.. As you quote, though different from what you imply, to be elected by the electoral college a president must receive the majority of the number of electors appointed, not a majority of the electoral votes cast. So the day in the first week of January that congress counts the votes cast by the electoral college, if Biden does not have at least 270 -- no matter how many votes were transmitted to Congress -- Biden cannot be elected by the popular/electoral college vote. If Harris did, however, get 270 votes for vice president she would become president. Otherwise if goes to a vote by states in the House.

    It is a bit murky. If a state's vote is deemed by the courts (or the legislature) to be faulty and thrown out, whether in that case the electors become unappointed or if it is their vote that is thrown out. In any case a court cannot rule that a state cannot cast any electoral college votes but only the one vote in question. If a court rules that one election is invalid the state can hold another election or the legislature can select another set of electors.
     
  13. HockeyDad

    HockeyDad Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If even one state get thrown out, that will prove that "the most secure election in American history" was just another lie spread by the establishment. It will be evidence that our system is dysfunctional.

    Going forward, mail-in ballots must be outlawed for nearly all situations. They served the Democrat's purpose in stealing the Presidency but they also ensured that Biden will never be accepted as legitimate by half the country.
     
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  14. Asherah

    Asherah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That depends on why they get thrown out. Trump's team has been seeking to sow doubt with assertions of fraud not backed by evidence. If legislatures were to serve Trump's wishes on this basis, in an attempt to deny Biden electors, it would not prove the system is dysfunctional, it would prove the legislators are corrupt.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  15. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    i humbly disagree.

    if one state's electors do not get certified either by the state or not certified by Congress, or tossed out by a court, those electors get subtracted from the total of 538.

    the winner must get 51% of all electors certified as legit by all involved.
     
  16. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if only 450 Electors are certified at the end of this process, Biden only needs 226 Electors to win.

    as per the US Constitution.
     
  17. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    You have a valid point, but it is much more murkier than you say. It kinda boils down to appointed electors versus certified electors. Certification of electors comes only from the state executive, not any judge or congress, and that certifies who the real electors are and not their votes (although the ability of an elector to vote for anyone he or she choose is now days highly restricted.) The Constitution uses the word appointed, not certified. Today electors are "appointed" under state law by the popular vote within a state. I don't think anything or anyone can change the number of electors appointed except likely if courts rules the election invalid then maybe that would mean those electors are not appointed, and if other electors are not appointed then the number of total electors appointed becomes less than 536 that a candidate has to get a majority to be elected. But all of this is an open litigable question. Are those electors not appointed or is just their certification blocked?

    In any case it is hard to imagine a state giving up their electoral votes. I'm certain in every state the the legislature can simply appoint that state's electors with certain restrictions to be sure. But then the state executive might not certify those electors according to federal law so it would befall upon the new congress, under the chairmanship of Pence, to decide which list of electors are accepted. But I don't think any of the above is a congressional prerogative.

    Like I say, it is much more murky and uncertain than you imply.
     
  18. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if scotus decides to throw out the Democrat Electors, a state is under no obligation to instead send the Republican electors.

    they can choose to send nobody.
     
  19. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Agreed, although it is highly unlikely that SCOTUS would (or could??) throw out any one set of a state's electors like in the two (??) states that apportion electors. SCOTUS cannot dictate to the state legislatures whom to appoint as electors AFAIK.
     
  20. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Actually, only Wisconsin at this point could send alternate electors. The rest have already certified and sent in their elector lists which are written in stone.
     
  21. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Why are you misrepresenting what he said? There are alot of IFs in there. Sounds like he does not know how this will turn out as no one does.
     
  22. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    This is an old video: Published on Nov 22, 2020
     
  23. Shook

    Shook Well-Known Member

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    The election should be nullified and conducted anew.
     
  24. Shook

    Shook Well-Known Member

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    An entire herd gets slaughtered if but only one animal turns up diseased.

    The entire election should be nullified and redone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
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  25. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not necessarily.
     

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