Our Current State of the Union

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by yabberefugee, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe you misunderstand me. I abhor those who broke into the Capitol Building......but I also abhor those who run roughshod over the desires to openly examine what went down in our election process. Over 75 million are concerned about that, yet their desire to see it openly examined was ignored. At the same time, breaking into our Capitol building is against the very precepts we hold dear. I do stand, however, with those outside (at least 95%) who demonstrated peacefully.

    There have been many many MAGA events over the last four years. You do understand this is the first event where violence did occur? Do you realize these right wing demonstrators have, in the past, picked up their own garbage and left the scene completely void of graffiti? Perhaps this is why the Capitol Police let their guard down. They did not expect this and neither did I. Contrast the bulk of their behavior with the summer riots and Democrat Politicians bailing out the perpetrators of destruction.

    You are unable to examine the contradictions in the O.P. it is clear. You seem to dismiss everyone of them as insignificant however they are there. Therefore I find your opinion insignificant as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  2. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    The problem was that there was never any "proof" of any major irregularities in the voting except internet rumors that grow as internet
    rumors are prone to do. The problem is that while Trump lawyers claimed fraud on the steps of the court house, they backed off those claims
    once inside where perjury has real consequences. The problem is that there WERE recounts and auditing of the votes in a number of
    states and none showed any significant problems.

    Now I know you'll try to claim that these internet claims were not disproved, but like Bigfoot, the absence of a thing doesn't prove a thing.
    Internet rumors are not proof. Sorry, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar - not a conspiracy.
     
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  3. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You abhor the action but believe in the big lie. One perpetrated by Trump hissownself. He knows his lies can become launched into perpetual motion amongst his faithful for their unquestioning consumption. He' plays to the court of public opinion because he fails so dismally in a court of justice, besides he has to tell the truth in a real court which explains why his legal record is 62 straight losses.

    How friggin' lame is your MAGA people clean up after their rallies justification for what happened at the capitol when a bunch of far right wing ********s desecrated the seat of american democracy. They didn't do it on the strength of the lie, but the simple true redhatter was there because of trumps BIG LIE.

    <COMMENTS EDITED>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2021
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  4. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    The fact of the matter is that ever since the New Deal and the Civil Rights movement, you people have been overreacting to reformist impulses in America. For your forbears the New Deal was "Socialism" and they complained that the end of Jim Crow was about "fundamentally changing our country." The simple fact is that the United States of America has been undergoing an organic cultural evolution for many decades now, and there are a lot of White Americans who simply can't handle it. But these changes have been all about "living out the true meaning of our Creed," they have been about the promotion of the General Welfare, instead of White Privilege. You can't say that genuine reform doesn't happen through struggle, and you have chosen to be among all those Americans who - today and in the past - have stood against making ours a more Perfect Union. That is certainly how all Trumpists will be remembered.
     
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  5. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    I am very interested in learning what it is that Trump supporters wanted from his presidency.
     
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    No. I'm a huge believer in congressional gridlock. It is the only time when congress even begins to make sense. If voters practiced what I preach we would still have it. But they didn't. Nevertheless we will survive it and, hopefully, get the gridlock back in place in the near future.
     
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  7. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It isn't my government. I don't live in California. I would never do so unless they got the government under control. The swamp wasn't drained so we have no idea what would happen. Effective financial control of the government and more effort to support personal freedom rather than authoritarianism would be my major desires if I had to live there. I don't have the energy to make a long list, sorry.
     
  8. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    There you go making things up again. Yawn.
     
  9. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    So just a general too much authoritarianism. This is so often the case. Its small wonder you never get what you want if you have no targeted aims, but instead just a feeling of permanent unhappiness.
     
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  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I don't get what I want because nobody else wants smaller government and I can do it by myself.
     
  11. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, the peril of living in a democracy is all those other voters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  12. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    not making it up, interpreting your various positions posted. Grounds for thinking the way I do. Always open to new data, but so far nothing you've proffered has moved the needle.
     
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  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    And nothing will. The needle is stuck.
     
  14. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    States will be States. The function of any government is to perpetuate itself by any means regardless if it is morally, ethically, legally, or philosophically right or wrong.

    One thing that is always guaranteed is that governments always, without fail, over-react.

    If you understand the Roll-Up Effect, that's good news.

    Think of a pyramid. At the bottom are the haters who have no qualms telling you they hate you. Above then are the people who hate you but don't have the guts to tell you. Above them are the people who aren't sure if they should hate you or not. Above them are the people don't like you but sympathize with you. Above them are the people who secretly support you. Above them are the people who openly support you and above them are the people who actively support you.

    Because government never fails to over-react, it will cause harm to someone or someone who knows someone.

    Know, some of the people who hated you still hate you, but they're not vocal about it.

    Some of the people who were not vocal about hating you now aren't sure if they should hate you or not.

    Some of the people who weren't sure, don't like you, but they understand.

    Some of the people who were sympathetic now tacitly support you.

    Some of the people who quietly supported you now openly support you.

    Some of the people who openly supported you are now standing by your side fighting for you.

    That's how the ranks of the rebels swell. The pyramid becomes a trapezoid turned rectangle turned inverted pyramid.
     
  15. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    he said unironically.
     
  16. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    As we see with Mr Trump.
    Isn't it odd that 4 years ago the election was not fiddled, but today it is. I mean why didn't the self perpetuating government self perpetuate last time.
     
  17. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    A Nation is an homogeneous group of ethnic people who:

    1] share a common ancestry, culture and language;
    2] worship the same god;
    3] revere the same heroes;
    4] cherish the same history;
    5] celebrate the same holidays; and
    6] share the same music, poetry, drama and literature.

    There is no requirement "to share a country"

    Nations can and do evolve.

    It's not my fault you drank the Liberal Kool-Aid®.

    There are 567 existing Indian nations. There were over 600, but long before Europeans came, Indian nations exterminated other Indian nations in a genocidal frenzy. Like the Hopewell Nation, which was exterminated by groups of Plains Indian Nations, and the Adena Nation before that.

    So, you have 567 different ancestries, 567 different cultures, 567 different languages, 567 different pantheons of gods, 567 different groups of heroes, 567 different histories, 567 different holidays recognized, and 567 different forms of music, etc,

    If you put a Micmac, a Miami, a Seminole, a Cherokee and Zuni in the same room, they'll just stare at each other, because they can't talk to each other because they all speak different languages.

    The Native American peoples consist of 14 different Y-DNA Haplogroups showing their origins to be Siberia, southern Asia, Australasia, the South Pacific and Europe (for Y-Haplogroup X).

    It's reasonable to conclude that those were 14 family groups, or perhaps 14 clans. For reasons of conflict or economics, groups split off and migrated to other areas and not being in contact with the original group, their language, culture etc evolved and changed over time until there were over 600 such groups.

    Same with the Zulu. They speak a Bantu language so we know where they used to live at one time.

    According to Zulu myth, the gods became angry and threw up the ground around them, so they fled south. I have no idea what that means. If it was a volcanic eruption, you'd think they'd mention a hint of fire in there somewhere. It sounds more like a devastating earthquake.

    Anyway, because the Zulu were separated from other Bantu speakers, their language, customs, culture etc evolved differently and that was likely influenced by other ethnic groups -- nations -- with whom they had contact.

    Family groups evolve into clans, clans into tribes, tribes into supra-tribes and supra-tribes into nations.

    Sometimes, nations evolve into nation-States, like Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Bulgaria, Serbia, Japan et al.

    The reason you have a federal republic instead of a unitary State, is because unitary States only work with nation-States.

    When you have multiple nations, you can only use a confederation or a federation.

    That's why the men who crafted the Articles of Confederation flat out rejected a unitary State, because there were many different nations here and not just one nation. When it appeared that the confederacy failed, they again flat out rejected a unitary State and opted for a federation.



    .
     
  18. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    Firstly who says that's the qualification for a nation?
    And if it is then America is not a nation? I think many would disagree with you.
    And as for the cool aid. Your very foundation speaks against you, it says: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore."

    I'm sure you would like to separate back out the nations muddled by history and interbreeding for whatever reasons you have.
    but it seems unlikely that you will be able to undo the process.
    Seems to me nations are made up of the people currently sharing the space regardless of your extrapolations.
     
  19. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The majority of my info came off the TV. Very little internet stuff. In fact......none! So you want to pit your news stations against mine? Then be honest about it. That is a fact I can accept. Let's wait and see what is in store the next couple days. You may be surprised Daniel.
     
  20. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Big Lie is merely an extension of the Steele Dossier and it's purveyors.
     
  21. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You gave yourself away. "White Privilege" is the identity politics battle cry of every Socialist/Globalist in America.. Everyone of our Founders were "white" and they installed the Creed and it's true meaning. They actually began the struggle of rights for all that to this day is not found in other countries. We've had a half black President and that just doesn't happen where there is "White Privilege." My hope is that our first female President will be Candice Owens who happens to be 100% black but she refuses to be race focused. She understands the Government Plantation and how it's been used.
     
  22. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    No - I'll pit court proceedings and Republican election officials over your TV opinion and entertainment shows (they are not news).

    As for being surprised? It's past time for that. I expect the worst from the MAGA Cult - riots and attempted insurrection and the idiot Trump
    lawyers once again claiming fraud on the court steps and your TV shows, but then backing off once in court. But as Trump fans stated over and over and
    over - the popular vote doesn't matter, it is the Electoral College. And the Electoral votes have been counted and certified. So anything
    the Trump faithful try to pull out of their ass will be slapped down by the courts.
     
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  23. Chuck711

    Chuck711 Well-Known Member

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    We've been listening to Trump Lie on a Daily basis

    Father Joe will be a relief
     
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  24. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nice try, but there ain't no whataboutery, no false equivalency, no argument that anyone can concoct that can alter the fact thatTrump, his cronies, his far right wing fascist nationalist core allies, and the far right fake news factories are responsible and complicit in the Big Lie and the horrific seditious attack on a joint session of congress. they are responsible for the death of two cops and four idiot redhats. (I find it poetic justice that one klutz died of tasering himself in the balls). And they will pay for their criminal acts. Even your dear leader.


    the regulal redhatters who are only guilty of having the same immense gullibility of all true believers. Going with the flow and trusting Dear Leader wouldn't do anything to hurt them or the nation. Fools all.
     
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  25. Chuck711

    Chuck711 Well-Known Member

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    Trump still has overlooked the Russian hack into our government systems.

    Trump has not said a word except to contradict our governments intelligence agencies ........... again

    So yes Trump probably has some sort of Russian connection

    If Putin has Trump working for him.......... Trump has done well

    Trump likely as with his recent interference with the Georgia elections did attempt to bribe a Foreign country for his own benefit

    The Republican officials who voted for Trump and contributed their money to his Election ....... really have integrity

    as they demonstrated in refuting Trumps " Big Lie " that he won the Election

    Trump did incite his followers to storm our Capital. As all saw and heard Trumps speech

    So the " Big Lie " is Trump is trying to MAGA ........... really Trump is trying hard to destroy America
     
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