Nursing Home- Before Vaccinations, 0 deaths, after vaccinations, the deaths begin

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by phoenyx, Jan 12, 2021.

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  1. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    An article I found to be quite interesting, given the fact that the vaccines seem to have created Covid 19 deaths rather than prevented them. Constructive feedback welcome.

    **
    Things seem to be working backwards at The Commons on St. Anthony nursing home in Auburn, New York. Vaccinating people is supposed to reduce or end coronavirus deaths. Right? But, at The Commons, such deaths are reported to have occurred only after residents began receiving coronavirus vaccinations.

    James T. Mulder wrote Saturday at syracuse.com that until December 29 there had been no coronavirus deaths at The Commons. December 29, when deaths of residents with coronavirus began occurring at The Commons, is also, Mulder’s article discloses, seven days days after the nursing home began giving coronavirus vaccinations to residents, with 80 percent of residents so far having been vaccinated.

    Over a period of less than two weeks since December 29, Mulder relates that 24 coronavirus-infected residents at the 300-bed nursing home have died.

    Is the timing just a strange coincidence?

    Read Mulder’s article here.

    This is the penultimate paragraph of Mulder’s article, where vaccinations at The Commons is mentioned:The nursing home began vaccinating residents Dec. 22. So far 193 residents, or 80%, and 113 employees, or less than half the staff, have been vaccinated. The nursing home plans to do more vaccinations Jan. 12.
    **

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...sidents-for-coronavirus-and-the-deaths-begin/
     
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  2. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This an example of a story that one or more of the big media platforms could ban. Because you know the bigs at corporate level say ban it so it's banned.
     
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  3. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    I haven't actually seen stories like this be banned, but what I -have- seen is a bunch of information from other sources that seems to contradict the initial source. Guess we'll see what happens.
     
  4. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank's OP for confirming my reluctance to go out and get the new vaccine. Although where I live in the US vaccines are still very limited.
     
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  5. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what happened here, but I leave open the possibility that once the staff got their jabs or once the staff and a lot of the patients go their jabs, the nursing home became slack in their testing and containment protocols.
     
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  6. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Maybe I've missed it, but how many of our congresscritters have taken the vaccine? I think I saw Kamala took it, but maybe they used a fake syringe or just made it up.

    IMO they should be the first to take it, along with the various state governors who have imposed lockdowns and such. We might get rid of a few of the bad ones.
     
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  7. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lets see - vaccinations started there on December 22. But the deaths had occured December 21!

    The anti-vax conspiracy thinks vaccination is supposed to work even BEFORE administration!

    Any protection from vaccination is estimated to begin have any protection in two weeks! And the vaccine requires 2 jabs, the second being several weeks after the first jab to build protection.

    Thus we see the propaganda from the anti-vaxers- the anti-vaxers complain these deaths were caused by the vaccine, when in fact these deaths were from people getting sick BEFORE the first jab was even administered!

    Of course, this lying story is from the Ron Paul Institute, a nut case liar who shows no hesitancy in broadcasting BS anytime it can. Along with the people who repeat the stories and seem to be fine with even embellishing the first BS even further by conspiracy with stories by the whole country.

    Believing the anti-vax propaganda is hazardous for your health!

    https://www.syracuse.com/coronaviru...ccine-killed-residents-dangerously-false.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was suspicious that your article didn't link to the article it was quoting ("any more", it appears) so I went to syracuse.com to try to find it but instead, I found this; https://www.syracuse.com/coronaviru...ccine-killed-residents-dangerously-false.html

    "Auburn, N.Y. – An Auburn nursing home says a national group’s claim that Covid-19 vaccine may have killed some of its residents is “blatantly false.”

    A website post published Sunday by the Ron Paul Institute suggests without any evidence that the Covid-19 vaccine may have caused 24 deaths at The Commons on St. Anthony. The post provided a link to a Syracuse.com story published Saturday that reported a Covid-19 outbreak at the 300-bed nursing home had infected 137 residents, 24 of whom died. The Syracuse.com story also reported the nursing home, operated by Loretto, had begun vaccinating residents against the virus.

    The nursing home says the group’s claim is misleading, the outbreak began before the vaccine was administered and some of the residents who died were not vaccinated."
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  9. dgrichards

    dgrichards Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Talk about your fake news! This is a great example. Totally unfounded rumor disguised as news.
     
  10. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    Ofcourse the mainstream media will say that it's false. However, one thing to point out- do you notice how they don't actually deny the -actual- claim made from the OP article? The OP article didn't say that no one had been diagnosed with Covid 19 before vaccinations started. They only said that no one had -died- from Covid 19 before vaccinations had started.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  11. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not "the mainstream media", the exact same primary source they quoted in the first place. You'd expect they know what they actually reported.

    No, it denied the blatant implication of the Ron Paul Institute article. Nobody is denying the facts (though the Ron Paul Institute article was intentionally selective with them), only the idea that those facts mean the vaccine caused the deaths. The actual facts reported do not support that idea.
     
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  12. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Four days AFTER that news in the OP, that same original source corrected that ALL of the infections occured before December 21, and the vaccines started to be administrated on December 22.

    The propaganda statements from the Ron Paul "Institute" that the vaccine was done BEFORE the infection was wrong.

    Of course....
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  13. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Pointing out that anti-vaxxers misrepresent facts to the point where they are effectively lying and don't make the slightest effort to fact check is basically a 'sun comes up in the morning' level statement. It is as fundamental a truth as exists.
     
  14. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    Believe it or not, primary sources can come from the mainstream media. However, I do note that syracuse.com doesn't seem to be connected to one of the larger publications.

    I strongly disagree- it's all there if you're paying attention.
    Quotes from the primary source:
    1- "The nursing home started vaccinating residents Dec. 22."
    2- "The first resident deaths from Covid-19 at the nursing home were reported Dec. 29 by the Cayuga County Health Department. Sheedy said some of the residents who died had been vaccinated, but wouldn’t say how many."

    Ron Paul's site article claims that no residents had died before getting vaccinated, which was true. It also claimed that allegedly started dying of Covid 19 after vaccinations started, also true. The source article also makes it clear that some people who were vaccinated died from Covid 19 and for some reason, they don't want to reveal how many of the vaccinated residents died of Covid 19. Why do you suppose that is?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  15. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, the "infections". You might want to take a look at an Off Guardian published a little under a month ago on that:
    WHO (finally) admits PCR tests create false positives- Warnings concerning high CT value of tests are months too late…so why are they appearing now? The potential explanation is shockingly cynical.

    What we -know- is that until the vaccines were administered, no one died. There's also evidence suggesting that the flu vaccine increases one's risks regarding Covid 19. I just created a thread on the evidence for that here:
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/can-flu-vaccine-increase-covid-risk.583844/
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  16. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No!

    Reading the original sources and the current information, which is already listed here before, the infections and resulying deaths were caused PREVIOUS to the vaccine administration!

    The lies of the anti-vax propaganda from places like the Ron Paul "Institute" (what a joke!) which are repeated and amplified these lies and then are put forth by places this Mercolo marketing company are killing people and making children sick from stopping critical vaccinations so once unheard of diseases are now coming back to harm our country's children.
     
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  17. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That wasn't my point anyway. You made a generic "mainstream media" attack on the response article without apparently recognising that it was the same source the was initially quoted. It isn't just them arguing against the Ron Paul article, it's them making clear exactly what they themselves did and did not report.

    What is all there though? All you have are two partially connected sets of events. Even if there was an exact match between patients who had received the vaccine and those who had died, that alone would only be correlation. And though there was a false effort to imply that was the case, the reported facts are that it wasn't.

    Maybe they didn't have those details. Maybe they couldn't release them for legal reasons. Maybe they weren't asked. Why didn't the Ron Paul Institute did some actual work and find out those answers rather than just scraping partial information from other people's articles and spouting clickbait speculation? Or did I just answer my own question?
     
  18. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    No, I knew you were referring to the original source. My only mistake was in not recognizing that the original source wasn't a mainstream media publication, but rather a small publication. The reporting did seem to be generally following the mainstream narrative, but there were some things about it that clearly weren't.

    What I mentioned last time:
    1- "The nursing home started vaccinating residents Dec. 22."
    2- "The first resident deaths from Covid-19 at the nursing home were reported Dec. 29 by the Cayuga County Health Department. Sheedy said some of the residents who died had been vaccinated, but wouldn’t say how many."

    Ron Paul's site article claims that no residents had died before getting vaccinated, which was true. It also claimed that allegedly started dying of Covid 19 after vaccinations started, also true.

    What I have is evidence suggesting that the covid vaccine, far from helping with Covid 19 symptoms, may well be making them worse. As mentioned in another response here, there is already evidence that the flu vaccine makes Covid 19 symptoms worse, which bolsters the case that the Covid 19 vaccine may also do so.

    The reporter stated that "[source] said some of the residents who died had been vaccinated, but wouldn’t say how many." Not couldn't say how many, -wouldn't- say how many.

    That explanation is more plausible, but again, if that were the case, it would seem that they didn't tell the reporter. Again, the question would be, why not?

    The fact that the reporter said they wouldn't say strongly suggests they were in fact asked. If -you- had bothered to do a bit more work, you'd have known that going into this.
     
  19. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or maybe there is no such thing as "the mainstream narrative" and it's just something made up to justify attacking any publication that (you think) reports anything you don't like.

    The point is that the stated facts (especially including the ones the Ron Paul Institute chose not to copy) aren't sufficient to reach any kind of meaningful conclusion.

    No you don't. There is zero information about any symptoms and zero information linking any individual's clinical outcome with them receiving the vaccine. All you have is the date vaccinations started at the home and the date the first death was reported from the home. You have nothing connecting the two in any way. And the key point is that you (and the Ron Paul Institute) are making zero effort to get further information, all you're doing is repeating the same incomplete facts and using that to imply a conclusion you want to be true.

    Reporters often spin answers to make them sound more dramatic. "Would not say" is commonly used regardless of what reasoning or justification the interviewee may have given. It's a moot point though. Why we don't have all the relevant information doesn't really matter. Either way you can't justify the speculation that was carefully implied by the article and that you outright stated.
     
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  20. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going argue with you on that point. I do invite you and anyone else reading to take a look at the following scene from a film called Network though:


    We clearly disagree on that point. I have noticed how you never quote what I say above though. I wonder why?

    Again, I disagree.

    I highly suspect you never read the full article. I'll quote from a portion of the article that gets into some details:
    **
    Flu Vaccination Linked to Increased Risk of COVID-19 Death
    Christian Wehenkel, a professor of forest genetics, forest ecosystem analysis, forestry, biometrics, forest growth and biodiversity with the Universidad Juarez del Estado de Durango, and a PeerJ editor, analyzed data sets from 39 countries with more than one-half million inhabitants.5 He expected to find that prior flu vaccination would be linked to lower COVID-19 death risk, but instead the data revealed the opposite.

    Among people aged 65 years and older, flu vaccination was positively associated with COVID-19 deaths, meaning those who got a flu vaccine were more likely to die from COVID-19. “Contrary to expectations, the present worldwide analysis and European sub-analysis do not support the previously reported negative association between COVID-19 deaths (DPMI) and IVR [influenza vaccination rate] in elderly people,” Wehenkel wrote.

    A May 2020 analysis by online news publication The Gateway Pundit similarly found that European countries with the highest COVID-19 death rates had high rates of flu vaccination — at least 50% — among the elderly.6 For instance, they wrote, “Denmark and Germany, with lower use of the flu vaccine, had considerably lower Covid-19 mortality.”

    They attempted to update their figures for fall 2020, and were able to update COVID-19 mortality rates but did not obtain current vaccination data. Spikes in COVID-19 deaths were noted, which they suggested could be related to a sudden uptick in flu vaccination in countries that had previously lower vaccination rates:7

    “This [increase in COVID-19 deaths] could simply be due to the virus reaching endemic level later in east Europe, but another factor could be sudden increase in flu vaccination in counties of hitherto low uptake. Are they unwittingly endangering their seniors?

    The World Health Organization is vigorously promoting flu vaccination in Europe, with posters warning ‘don’t bring home an unwanted visitor: protect your family by getting vaccinated.’ The Covid-19 pandemic has terrified the public and many people see a vaccine as the only means of escape.”

    Wehenkel’s data, however, picks up where they left off, showing by scatterplot a clear association of COVID-19 deaths per million inhabitants with flu vaccination rate, up to July 25, 2020 (each dot represents a different European country):8,9

    [​IMG]
    **

    Source: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...1/12/can-flu-vaccine-increase-covid-risk.aspx
     
  21. dgrichards

    dgrichards Well-Known Member

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    Your using a snake oil huckster as proof? Really?
     
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  22. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    NONE of that is true, not any part of Ron Paul BS and the stories the people who were actually involved explain ALL of the infections and most deaths had occurred December 21, and the vaccine jabs started on the 22nd.

    This pack of lies from Ron Paul are lies, and the initial small news item was corrected shortly after the first erroneous letter was corrected, including the health people who were there.


    There is no evidence at all that flu vaccine makes COVID symptoms worse. That is ridiculous, and has no basis.
     
  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Could either be an isolated coincidence, or it could be a sign there might be a connection. Maybe the mRNA in the vaccine somehow turned into a virus. I don't know all the science here, but this is probably a little understood area of science, it might be possible. Or there was a defect in the vaccine production, and somehow a viral particle got through, and then that virus morphed into something infectious.
    Maybe they should take a sample from the patients in the nursing home so they could be able to analyze it later, if they wanted. If the virus they have is shown to be different than the one that's going around, it would imply it may have been from the vaccine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  24. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    You really don't get it. Those quotes weren't from the Ron Paul site. They were from the original source. But don't take my word for it, read it yourself:
    https://www.syracuse.com/coronaviru...ccine-killed-residents-dangerously-false.html
     
  25. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I read it.

    Holidays, a couple days before Christmas, mistletoe hanging, fraternizing, family visiting, everyone excited about being safer from COVID. I have heard these older people even kiss and have sex!

    Show some deaths nexr week from vaccinated people, then we can talk.

    From this source;
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021

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