We disagree. You are not my enemy.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Bow To The Robots, Jan 14, 2021.

  1. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Oh good grief, you can't wake those who only pretend to be "asleep".

    Yes, I'm "like" the rioters at the capitol just like you are like the rioters run amok all summer, nationwide.

    I can play that stupid game too.
     
  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think theres some room between hostility and laying down.
     
  3. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure there is.

    but on the other hand, the left are the world's most giant hypocrites to expect us all to sing kumbya, not 24 hours ago another sham "peachmints"
     
  4. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a great post. Kudos.

    All you need to understand about this increasing division is that I've pretty much never seen anyone swear someone out in person like literally everyone does on the internet.

    Turns out there's a lot of things you miss out on talking with 0s and 1s. Like context, inflection, intuition.

    Each side is going after the other's sacred cows just to **** with them. Even if I strongly disagree with someone in person, I'm not going to **** all over the things they care about out of spite.

    Despite what the profiteers in the media and business would have you believe, very few people are fascists or Stalinists. Talk to your common man. Open a dialogue. Exchange views. Even if you still disagree at the end of it you have a better understanding of why they hold the views they do.

    Ideas cannot hurt you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  5. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Though I agree to some degree with your diagnosis, love is a more powerful tool than hate my friend.

    Unless you are actually in a state of civil war (in which case what are you doing here) the way forward is dialogue and understanding.

    This is how all great movements have progressed. The framers did not want war, they held out until it was absolutely unavoidable.
     
  6. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    I'm a huge fan of what I like to call 'fermented malt diplomacy.'
     
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  7. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sounds interesting, what does it entail?
     
  8. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    This is a really valuable point -- the demogogues want us on a hair trigger. And incrementally, we are giving them what they want. Our peaceful protests have a body count. We have to push back on the schadenfreude perpetrated by our masters.
     
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  9. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    Starts with a fermented malt beverage. Maybe a cigar or two. Add some hops and you are well on your way.
     
  10. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ahh, I'm familiar with that method, here in Australia we call it boozin' n schmoozin'

    Very effective indeed.
     
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  11. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Well actually their goal is to keep it from destroying us but hey whatever lie you have to tell yourself so you can sleep at night.
     
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  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    But put into play some if them can destroy you. And cancel culture certainly will. We now have a pitching coach fired for having said he doesn't agree with BLM regarding soicialism and the nuclear family and an up and coming musicians career destroyed because he went to a Trump campaign rally. You may think that's okay but if that's the sort of country you want you're nuts I don't care who you are.
     
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  13. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    As I said, same goal as AlQuaeda: They want to destroy US government, so it doesn't destroy them. Drones and wars come to mind....
     
  14. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    If you have any opinion at all on BLM and socialism I am not sure I want you around my kids. You can have an opinion all you want but leave my kids out of it.

    If a musician is a Trumper he can get other Trumpers to listen to him. Ted Nugent is an excellent musician and a total conservative *******. Let him get the gun advocates he so loves to throw money at him.
     
  15. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the sentiment expressed in the OP is a nostalgic view of the ways things once were, are for most of us, and could be again for all of us (I hope). Not so long ago we could disagree on what the size and role of government should be, tax policy, immigration, in an informed, civil manner. We could do so because we had a commonly held belief in the sky being blue. A common, if grudging, respect for the right of a representative of the majority to govern.
    However, I find it hard to find kinship with people who try to violently impose tyrannical rule over me. People who try to disenfranchise me. Who want to strip me of my right to participate in choosing my own destiny. Those who would do that, and those who support them, are my fellow human beings, my fellow citizens, and yet a danger to me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  16. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who were these people who "try to violently impose tyrannical rule over me." It is an extremely small percent of the republican party.. In order to prevent that extremely small group who "try to violently impose tyrannical rule over me.", you are willing to alienate the vast majority of the republican party. That is the problem with the democrat's version of "unity".
     
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  17. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, it's hard to go full on kumbaya to those who support a president who lusts, on a weekly basis for 4 years, for the kind of adoration he receives by trolling the opposition, who back a prez who does nothing to prevent his buddy, the editor of the National Enquirer from publishing headliners such as:

    . hillary.jpg

    It's hard to be warm and fuzzy about those who back a president who asserts daily that the press of his opposition is 'the enemy of the people' noting that no president in history has done this on the order of magnitude that Trump does it (or who has done it at all), it's tough to be friendly to those Trump fans and right of center types who call democrats communists/marxists --- it's tough to offer cookies and ice cream, flowers, etc., let alone an olive branch, to those who accuse democrats of stealing the election when it was they, the republicans, who gerrymandered every district in America they held sway over, and so this is not a doable thing, until that day comes, if and when it comes, when they are willing to repudiate Trump, Trumpism, and their methods of power grabbing beyond that which is fair and just.

    ...so if and when they repudiate hate mongering, troll posting ( i.,e comments like 'why does the left hate America? ) etc, if and when they stop supporting TV and radio personalities who spew 'hate-the-left' with egregious lies and conspiracy theories on a day and night basis, when they stop backing a president who devotes a lot of time repealing policies designed to save the planet from destruction just to save a job or two against the solid advice of a majority of climate scientists, if and when they stop backing a president who fills the hearts and minds of a large group of racist white supremacist militia types with hatred of democrats to the point of committing insurrection against the united states, your suggestion might be followed.

    And, for any right of center types about to do a whataboutism, don't, because if you want to get into a 'which president and party is the most awful' you are going to win that particular pissing contest, hands down, so don't even bother, particularly if you have to go back 120 years to find some dirt on democrats while being oblivious to the fact that back then those democrats weren't liberals, and those republicans weren't conservatives. Don't even try.

    While I do admire the spirit of your OP, it's probably unrealistic this day and age, in this climate.

    I'll say this, things really started going downhill from Gingrich taking control of the speakership back in the 90s, but that would never have happened if Reagan hadn't repealed the fairness doctrine, which paved the way for hate radio, the growth therefrom of the T party, fomenting in Gingrich, and the subsequent polarization of politics, the disabling of compromise politics ( because they got rid of earmarks ) onward now to the advent of Trumpism. There is a throughline from the repeal of the fairness doctrine to Trump.

    The first thing that has to happen, is that the right has to come to grips with, is this one unescapable fact, that Trump was wrong to accuse the democrats of stealing the election, that their own suspicions and sentiments concurring with it were Trump's manipulation of their minds and hearts, and that it was his incessant insistence and repeat of this lie, over and over and over again, which filled his followers with sufficient rage that when, on Jan 6, Trump, Don, and Giuliani, got their flock whipped up to a frenzy such that the volcanic hatred Trump has inspired over a series of many months, finally erupted, whether they intended for it of happen or not ( given their station, they should have known) which, did, in fact, result in an attempted overthrow of a legitimate election, i.e., which resulted in insurrection, mayhem, and deaths, they will have to admit that the entire fiasco is the work, the ultimate fruition of the labor of one Donald, J. Trump. If and when they join dems in the repudiation of Trumpism ( not saying to abandon conservative philosophy, just the worst of Trumpism and what it represents ) if and when they join dems to make sure Trump can never ever again hold an office of the public trust, then, and only then, perhaps, your recommendations have a fighting chance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  18. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    Beautiful sentiment, but tell me again how that worked out for the German Jews, or anyone else for that matter that find themselves subject to the whims of an "enlightened" majority in their own country. No thanks.
     
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  19. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Bs Al Qeada's goal isn't destroying the US government. If the US government were to swear allegiance to Allah, and enforce Sharia Law tomorrow they would be more than happy to let it exist in perpetuity.
     
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  20. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    My sentiments also! I don't hate anyone, but I'm no sucker either ;) The DNC are without a doubt the most corrupt, underhanded and selfish party to walk the halls of Washington today.. They are parasitic and will feed off their hosts until the host has no other means but to assimilate and succumb to the same form just to survive themselves..

    We are all nothing but a means to enrich politicians lives at the expense of our own life styles and freedoms..
     
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  21. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It is a bit more complicated than that. Not many people create enemies from mere words. But actions can certainly do it. As an example I view Twitter at al. as enemies because they engage in controlling free speech, something I value. That is an action. Yet I come here and interface with people like you who disagree with me on a daily basis. I don't view free speech as an issue and certainly not a reason to make an enemy. Actions are what matter.
     
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  22. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I agree with all you've said, and the general theme of those agreeing with the spirit of your OP.

    Like it or not, we must acknowledge that what Edward Bernays said a century ago is true and factual. Indeed, we are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes are formed and our ideas are suggested by men we have never heard of.

    Our perceptions are manipulated and formed by the descendants of Bernays. It is true what Casey said in 1981, that when everything the American people believe is false, the success of misinformation efforts will be known.

    All we see around us today in the media and on the internet is mostly propaganda advancing an agenda.

    There are forces trying to turn citizen against citizen, and sadly they have fairly well succeeded.
     
  23. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Has your internet service been out since a week ago Wed.?
     
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  24. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Yup. This dangerous ideology of censorship was incubated on our university campuses and now they are attempting to apply it nationally. I think it's time to for the State Legislatures to step up and expose any who impose such nonsense to censor ideologically to civil recoveries. Poland is implementing this, setting the financial penalties for big tech at $2.2M per infraction if its clear they apply rules in a manner that bans an ideological viewpoint rather than illegal speech.

    North Dakota is looking at something similar. I think it's time the other 50 states do the same.

    “MISINFORMATION” IS OUR NEW CHINESE-STYLE CODE WORD FOR “WRONGTHINK.” Duke profs suggest Biden pursue ‘new laws’ to combat ‘misinformation.’

    Fake News Politifact founder Bill Adair and fellow Censorious Duke professor Philip Napoli called for a “commission” to combat “misinformation” in an op-ed published by The Hill during the same week that Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez advocated to "rein in" the media.

    One can always count on AOC to say something frighteningly stupid.

    Using the Capitol riot as justification for their long awaited purge
     
  25. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Epic fail. My reply was a request for your views, not simple backlash. Anyone can do that ... it requires no thought.

    Why are you so certain that those with different views are out to destroy their own country? Who or what gave you the idea that liberals don't love a free America? That we're not patriots every bit as much as you are? What freedoms, specifically, are you convinced we're going to take from you?

    The whole point of this thread is to attempt to find common ground, but how can you and I do that if you're convinced that I'm your enemy and am trying to bring about some vague, dark dystopia? What do you find dystopian about leftist ideals?

    What are your information sources? I think you're being lied to.
     
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