What will win the god wars? Faith, Fantasy, Facts, or God?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Greatest I am, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks! a beautiful analogy...
    you say "we are his beneficiaries"....but who or what are we?
     
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  2. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ...unless God is made in the image of humans....
    you may quote and link to as much as you like,
    but still will remain only an opinion...
    what if yours is incorrect? Would it matter in the least?
     
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  3. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    All people. It is everyone's birthright. And thanks for the compliment of the analogy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    God is very creative... humans are very creative..... humans learn.... .but can God learn and get better at creating over time???????? But then time was invented by God...... so?????????

    www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/
     
  5. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    God is already whole...perfect...cannot "get better"
    Man invented time...is there a verse that claims otherwise??
     
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  6. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you...."All People" and likewise all else...is that not so?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But... can God have children?

    Can God have millions or even billions of children?

    Children who are actually like their older brother Messiah Yeshua - Jesus who was resurrected two millennia ago... and is doing an amazing job of appearing to people who have a brush with death..... especially His own people.... children of His own followers like little Colton Burpo... son of Pastor Todd Burpo.
     
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  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes... .all people are coming together and finding that the Creator is indeed ... WITHIN each and every one of us.

    http://www.thomastwin.com/7 A Thomas samples.html

     
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  9. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "children" is also a word created by humans...in fact all words are created by humans...
    are you quite sure you can describe God with human words?
     
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  10. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.

    Let us pray, while remembering that most in religions, if push came to shove, are not really believers.

    In any event, churches are closing at a brisk pace. I like what I see.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  11. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you mean. I only know what it's like to be human.
     
  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is my understanding of I Corinthians 15 ..... yes.....

    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/nt/1-cor/15?lang=eng


    38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

    39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

    40 aThere are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the bcelestial is one, and the glory of the cterrestrial is another.

    41 There is one glory of the asun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the bstars: for one star cdiffereth from another star in dglory.

    42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in acorruption; it is raised in incorruption:

    43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in aglory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

    44 It is sown a anatural body; it is raised a bspiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    45 And so it is written, The afirst man bAdam was made a living soul; the last cAdam was made a dquickening spirit.

    46 Howbeit that was not afirst which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    50 Now this I say, brethren, that aflesh and bblood cannot cinherit the kingdom of God; neither doth dcorruption inherit incorruption.

    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all asleep, but we shall all be bchanged,

    52 In a moment, in the atwinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the btrumpet shall sound, and the cdead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be dchanged.

    53 For this acorruptible must put on incorruption, and this bmortal must put on immortality.

    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on aimmortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, bDeath is swallowed up in victory.

    55 O adeath, where is thy sting? O bgrave, where is thy victory?

    56 The sting of adeath is sin; and the bstrength of sin is the law.

    57 But athanks be to God, which giveth us the bvictory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  13. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow man! I'm glad you can understand all that...I think I prefer the @Injeun analogy
     
  14. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think that's a great answer...thank you
     
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  15. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    An obvious lie.

    With all your afterlife belief, I am surprised you did not recognize the lie.

    In reality, the sting of death, is bliss.

    In your view, God allows the sting of death.

    To say he is a direct accomplice to so much sin, --- tsk tsk.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  16. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "We all live in a world of social reality that exists only inside our collective human brains."
    "Humans are the only animals on this planet who can simply make things up, agree on them as a group, and they become real."
    https://undark.org/2021/01/01/book-...ons-about-the-brain/?utm_source=pocket-newtab
     
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  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Death" is a word subject to definition..... and there has been some "Progressive Revelation" since the time of Paul..... but what he wrote is true........... just possible to misunderstand but there is a dark side to feeling a lot of guilt .... over sin.......during the Life Review part of the Near Death Experience.

    A lack of love for others though gets us into more trouble though than the standard sins of the flesh........... Jesus tells Howard Storm to "love the people that you are with."

     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  18. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps ALL human words are "subject to definition" and can be morphed by "Progressive Revelation" as you say.
    Are not ALL human ideas...endeavors...structures...beliefs....unstable and temporary?
    Humans will hang on to their man made religious doctrines only until they get bored with them...
    and then move on to some other fantasy...anything they can find to distract themselves from reality.
     
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  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But... there is some really good news coming... and what was shown to near death experiencer and former ATheist Howard Storm... sure does remind me of the teachings of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets over these last four millennia..... or more.

    https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html#a04

     
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  20. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    True, and fools will define it as us remaining sentient without any evidence or proof after we die.

    The religious are the worst liars.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  21. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But if the words of those prophets...and the words of Jesus himself
    has not moved humans to stop destroying each other and everything around them...
    what makes you think that even more words from Mr Storm will make any difference?
    I seems obvious that humans missed the point
    and are not any closer than they were "four millennia" ago.
    What will it take for humans to admit that God is not what they claim.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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  22. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If I am understanding your analogy correctly....
    you are saying such things as love, regret, urges to forgive, urges to ask forgiveness, etc.,
    are coming from "elsewhere" and that "elsewhere" refers to God.

    What about things such things as hate, anger, urges to harm and bring misery upon others, etc.,
    Do those things likewise come from God?
    Do you have a separate analogy for those things?
     
  23. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    That's very interesting. I've never given it any thought or consideration till you mentioned it. Thanks, I'll ponder it. Honestly, I've been so enamored of late with the urgings to do good which I have long sought, with the greater peace, civility, and clarity it naturally brings, that the darkness and confusion of anger and warlike hate seems to have fled or is fleeing like the long night to the suns rising. Though I much prefer the goodness of God, I am not a stranger to evil you might say.
     
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  24. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am one who has to draw on their own experiences. If I have a wife, two kids, a house with a picket fence and a well paying job, what more can one ask for? What is that gnawing feeling I have in my gut? Why do I get sad? So I start drinking a few beers and then I try a few pills for anxiety and occasionally try something stronger. All those things help temporarily. Now I have created different set of problems. I find the kids irritate me and I wish the wife would quit nagging. I'm missing work and the bills are suffering. Nothing like getting stopped by the police and put in jail overnight. Everyone wants to know " Why, what's wrong with you?'' It may be a friend, family member, judge or self realization you need help. For many the first time is an introduction to realm of spiritualism. Your spiritualism means " pertaining to your spirit" at the present time. For many of us GOD is a concept beyond our imagination. Look at all the evil in the world. The young are dying. How does God let all this too happen? When I asked all these questions I was asked a question. " What do you want God to be?"

    I would want God to be loving and caring. Then I was told that "God is spiritual and not physical and lives inside all of us. Am I loving and caring? How can I love someone else when I don't even care about myself? How can you forgive others and expect forgiveness if you cannot forgive yourself.? Nothing changes; if nothing changes. God doesn't need for you to tell him what you want or need. He already knows. When the student is ready the teacher will appear.

    Today my happiest days are when I can help others. Many years ago I was sitting in a Chinese restaurant and when I got my bill there was a message on it. Paid in full. "Pass it On". I never knew who paid it and the waitress wouldn't tell me. Every now and then when me and my wife go out we may see a family, or a person eating alone, or a person with one arm or leg and we will pick up their tab and leave that same message. Does God need me? I would say no but then again maybe he does because we all have to learn our own hearts and join him in overtaking what evil lives inside the bodies of others. My relationship with GOD today is lousy at best. I still have a long way to go and a short time to get there but the journey is worth the trip. The answer to your question is Yes for me. Only you can know what is good for you.
    “Contempt prior to examination is an intellectual vice, from which the greatest faculties of mind are not free.” William Paley
     
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  25. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They turned their backs on the plight of the Jew. Today, fear still reigns as many turn their backs on those who suffer under tyrants. Even at home we would rather walk over those who lay in the street, remain silent and not confront evil as our children die in the streets, allow the rabble rousers to infiltrate peaceful protests against justice. We have abandoned our values of family, our children to indoctrination of the state, and allowed their minds to be poisoned in the higher halls of learning to those who wish to rule us.
     
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