Be Very Afraid!

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Moi621, Nov 20, 2020.

PF does not allow misinformation. However, please note that posts could occasionally contain content in violation of our policies prior to our staff intervening. We urge you to seek reliable alternate sources to verify information you read in this forum.

  1. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Be Afraid
    Be Very Afraid


    https://www.yahoo.com/news/israeli-covid-czar-says-first-164748261.html
    Israeli Covid czar says first Pfizer jab not as effective
    as hoped and blames spike in cases on British strain

    Israel’s coronavirus czar has warned that the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine offers less protection than expected, as he blamed the country’s surge in Covid cases partly on the new British variant. . . .


    Similar to influenza, Covid is here to stay.
    Both mutate to new strains requiring new immunity
    or become ill!
    Remember why we don't have a vaccine for Covid's cousin,
    the common cold. psst, mutates too quickly!



    Moi
    :oldman:
    We're All gonna Die
    More News at 11, 10 Mountain & Central




    It's the :flagcanada: virus I tell ya!
    Seal the border!
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
    Esdraelon and Eleuthera like this.
  2. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    This is what can ALSO be highlighted from your article:
    "Another study of a hundred people in Israel found that 98 per cent were protected from the disease once the second dose was administered."
    So, duh, we have known forever that these vaccines need two shots. The Brits are playing with fire with this idea of one shot for more people, and I hope we don't make the same mistake in the USA. My second shot is scheduled for the day after tomorrow.
     
  3. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Does it cover the Brit strain?
    How about the South Africa strain?



    The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is planned as a one time event.

    98% protected per lab studies.
    How about the real world?


    Moi :oldman:
    Did you get your flu shot this year? ;)
     
    Esdraelon and gfm7175 like this.
  4. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Pfizer studies show that so far it does protect against the Brit and the South African strains.
    Efficacy rates are not lab studies. You may be mixing up efficacy rates with immunogenicity. Efficacy rates are obtained by comparing real people in the real world who got vaccinated to those who didn't, and looking at percentages that caught the virus.
    Efficacy data for the J&J shot have NOT been released yet. This rate you are saying is immunogenicity rate, not efficacy.
    Now, to verify if a vaccine protects against a new strain, yes, these are lab studies. You get plasma of the vaccinated person and mix to cell cultures with the virus to see if the new variant is also neutralized by those antibodies.
    This should translate well to the real world.
    But yes, there is a risk that if the virus continues to mutate fast, at one point it will escape the vaccines. That is less easy for the virus to achieve than most lay people think, given that the vaccines produce antibodies that target several different segments of the S protein.
    Fortunately mRNA vaccines can be tweaked to new strains. mRNA vaccines are very flexible.
    Most likely we'll have an annual mRNA shot, updated to new strains, much like flu shots (using a different technology but the idea is the same). The updated mRNA shots are likely to be way more efficacious against the SARS-CoV-2 than updated flu shots against the various and rapidly mutating strains of the influenza virus.
    If I got my flu shot? Sure did. However we aren't seeing a lot of flu, this season, because as a less infectious virus, the influenza virus is having a harder time to progress around the population, given that a good chunk of the population is taking epidemiological precautions against the SARS-CoV-2. The latter being more infectious, it is progressing anyway, but the influenza virus is getting a bigger blow from these measures.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  5. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    ... which is something that we already knew because mask pores are much larger than covid viruses are...
     
    Esdraelon likes this.
  6. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ahhhhh, the old "virtue signaling" mantra... Nice...

    So you expect me to believe that the VERY SAME MASK PORES are somehow able to stop covid viruses from exiting the wearer's mouth yet are simultaneously unable to stop covid viruses from entering into the wearer's mouth??

    That's laughable, as well as an attempt on your part to argue a paradox. You need to clear your paradox in order to argue rationally.

    No.

    Lockdowns and masks do not stop viruses. You take the "vaccine" if you wish, but I absolutely refuse to touch it with a 100ft pole, ESPECIALLY the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna...

    No, they aren't.

    No, I couldn't.

    It offers ZERO protection from viruses for anyone.

    No, the PROOF is already available. It is called mathematics (and engineering specs).

    All it takes is one virus to potentially cause an infection (and potentially death). "Heavy exposure" will occur regardless of whether or not one wears a mask in an area that has a lot of virus present.

    I thought that patients wore masks?? I thought that medical workers wore masks?? Don't masks work?? You are making the case AGAINST what you are attempting to argue... Thankfully, medical workers are doing just fine.

    ... EXTREME exposure... Exposure is generally a good thing, if not in excess...
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
    Esdraelon and Moi621 like this.
  7. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,492
    Likes Received:
    4,828
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Perfect word choice... I call this the Church of Covid (it stems from the Church of Fear)
     
    Esdraelon and Eleuthera like this.
  8. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    :omg: Biblical plague :omfg:

    DeusVult-1.jpg

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-19-variant-defeats-plasma-180204180.html
    New COVID-19 variant defeats plasma treatment,
    may reduce vaccine efficacy

    May? It will!
    JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - The new COVID-19 variant identified in South Africa can evade the antibodies that attack it in treatments using blood plasma from previously recovered patients, and may reduce the efficacy of the current line of vaccines, scientists said on Wednesday. . . .


    Got Antibodies?
    That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee!

    BE AFRAID
    BE VERY AFRAID!


    Moi
    :oldman:
    End The Lockdowns!
    They won't save the vaccinated!





    It's the :flagcanada: virus
    Not China, BritLand nor S. Africa
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
    Esdraelon likes this.
  9. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/cheap-generic-drug-reduces-covid-150300202.html

    Cheap, 'generic' drug reduces COVID-19
    death risk by 75 percent, trials suggest
    Wed, January 20, 2021, 7:03 AM
    Ivermectin, a cheap and "generic" antiparasitic drug "used all over the world," may significantly reduce the risk of death in patients suffering from moderate to severe cases of COVID-19, researchers have found.

    The University of Liverpool's Andrew Hill and others carried out a meta-analytical breakdown of 18 studies that showed the drug — which is off-patent and commonly used to treat lice and scabies, as well as some more serious parasites — appears to reduce inflammation and eliminate the coronavirus swiftly, the Financial Times reports. In six of those trials, the mortality risk was cut by 75 percent in patients with more serious COVID-19 infections. The research team has also theorized the drug could also make it harder for infected people to transmit the virus. . . .

    Be afraid
    Be very afraid!


    Their are profit interests involved with treating Covid.
    Do you really think "they" would sacrifice such interests to
    a "cheap generic"?



    Moi :oldman:
    and "flumadine" too.
    A cocktail for me, ivermectin + flumadine.
    And ibuprofen too if I really feel sick.



    STOP The :flagcanada: Virus
    Close the border

     
    Esdraelon likes this.
  10. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Disneyland - Anaheim, California re-opening
    Message Moi for cheap tickets.



    https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/california-covid-variant-discovered-083114534.html
    California Has Its Own Coronavirus Variant,
    Researchers Reveal

    Two independent research groups discovered the strain in California while seeking the more contagious, possible more deadly, British variant in the state. Although the researchers found the UK strain ― B.1.1.7 ― in scattered cases in Los Angeles, San Diego and San Bernardino counties, they weren’t expecting to discover a homegrown variant.

    The California variant ― CAL.20C - was barely detectable in early October, researchers from Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles said. But by late December, it accounted for 24% of virus samples taken from southern California patients and about 36% of tested Los Angeles samples.



    So many new strains in such a short time compared to flu virus.
    We only have one vaccine and need 3 more, UK, SA & California.
    We need a Flumadine / Tamiflu like "antibiotic"

    Until then, Be Afraid. Be very afraid


    Moi
    :oldman:




    Canada-3.png
     
    Sallyally and Esdraelon like this.
  11. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  12. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I find Ivermectin to be a promising repurposed drug (unlike hydroxychloroquine) and no fewer than 54 randomized controlled trials, better designed than the 14 that have concluded - mostly positively) are under way; some will conclude soon, so we'll have a clear picture. The NIH had issued in August a contrary recommendation for ivermectin. Now they have cancelled that, and moved it to neutral. If these RCTs being concluded also find positive results, the NIH is likely to change again the recommendation to positive, and the FDA is likely to approve the indication.

    There is no attempt from the medical sciences to discredit cheap repurposed drugs in favor of expensive new drugs. That's a BS conspiracy theory.

    Of the hundreds and hundreds of drugs studied for Covid-19, a tiny minority is under patent (like Remdesivir). The second drug to be approved for the indication, Dexamethasone, is a cheap generic, which puts a big hole in this BS conspiracy theory.

    If we were interested in only looking at expensive drugs under patent, we wouldn't be looking at hundreds and hundreds of cheap generic drugs.
     
  13. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    First of all, that's not true. The flu virus mutates faster. The Covid-19 mutations, the vast majority of them minor and with no immunological impact, occur at rate of two per month for each strain.

    Second, no, we wouldn't need three vaccines. The mRNA technology can target multiple sites of the S protein. One vaccine could be tweaked to target the mutated sites in all these more concerning strains. By the way, of all the new strains, the only one that seems to have a immunological impact is the B.1.135, the South African one.

    The lay press got a hold of these mutations and new strains and now issues alarmist headlines every time one surfaces, regardless of the immunological impact of such strains.

    Look, Moi621, you've been repeatedly posting misinformation and misguided statements. I've had to correct the record after you post... sigh...

    Like your first post on this page... so some Israeli idiot thinks so... and then, data released showed that of 128,000 Israelis who received the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine, despite the fact that the new UK strain B.1.1.7 is already there, only 0.015% contracted Covid-19, suggesting that the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine is actually higher than expected, the exact opposite of what some Israeli idiot said. And yes, I know that he's said to be the Covid Czar... he's still an idiot.

    You might have an interest in looking at scientific data instead of alarmist lay press pundits and politicians with an agenda.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    Montegriffo and AZ. like this.
  14. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    7,629
    Likes Received:
    841
    Trophy Points:
    113
    COVID-19 vaccine: What’s RNA research got to do with it? : NewsCenter (rochester.edu)
    I hope it doesn't work that way, that every little mutation requires a new vaccine; not what they are saying there. This thing would have been an excellent human made bioweapon as is without new strains, especially with an idiot without a mask and soap, if every mutation requires a new vaccine it becomes God's bioweapon.
     
    Moi621 likes this.
  15. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My generic Albuterol inhaler was like $5 years ago
    Today, same medicine, same inhaler anywhere from $30 - $50.

    We do not agree.

    Besides, ivermectin and flumadine are very benign medicines,
    unlike hydroxychloroquine.

    Y'notice no mention of Jewish Chicken Soup.


    Moi :oldman:
    Just because I'm a conspiracist
    doesn't mean it isn't.




    Canada-3.png
    :flagcanada: Pharmacy
     
    James California and Sallyally like this.
  16. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    We disagree.

    We now have 4 strains of Covid.
    3 in a few months.
    Flu virus mutates slower.


    @CenterField
    this will probably be the last of my replies to you.
    No not ignore list. Just bored. Not Board, bored.
     
  17. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    DeusVult-1.jpg


    Moderna says its' vaccines will cover new strains.
    I wonder about others. Sputnik for example.
    This will take time to sort out.
    Witnessing vaccinated persons catching any Covid,
    which Covid, and likelihood compared to the unvaccinated.


    Moi :oldman:
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  18. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Be afraid
    Be very afraid.


    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/...ay-with-us-forever-moderna-ceo-224622557.html

    Moderna CEO offers a bleak assessment of COVID-19:
    Virus to stay with the world 'forever'



    FREE the people to Party as if it's their last

    because it may well be so.
    Thinking of those Nazi elite, partying as the
    Soviets were closing in.


    Moi :oldman:
    End The useless Lockdown :rant:
    Liberation is followed by a surge followed by another Lockdown.



     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    Sallyally likes this.
  19. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    15,834
    Likes Received:
    28,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    That wouldn’t be surprising if the virus were to hang around. Will it endure in a weakening form or mutate to a deadlier one?
     
  20. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    13,499
    Likes Received:
    4,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Which whisky?
     
  21. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think you know what mutations and strains are. They are not the same thing. Get informed.
    Oh, great that you won't be replying to me... because the abysm between you and me in terms of medical knowledge is predictably HUGE, so, I'm the one who gets bored by your constant misinformation. Lay people trying to talk about medical matters often leads to laughable results.

    Yes, sure, we disagree. Because I'm right and you are wrong. Here:

    https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-mutation-rate.html

    This piece has the convenient title,
    Coronavirus seems to mutate much slower than seasonal flu
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    fiddlerdave likes this.
  22. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    For those interested in rate of mutation, from the link above:

    "Based on current data, it seems as though SARS-CoV-2 mutates much more slowly than the seasonal flu. Specifically, SARS-CoV-2 seems to have a mutation rate of less than 25 mutations per year, whereas the seasonal flu has a mutation rate of almost 50 mutations per year.

    Given that the SARS-CoV-2 genome is almost twice as large as the seasonal flu genome, it seems as though the seasonal flu mutates roughly four times as fast as SARS-CoV-2."

    Also for those interested in knowing the difference, merely having a mutation doesn't cause a new strain. The S protein (and many other parts of the virus) have several different sites that may mutate. With the vast majority of these mutations being of no consequence and not altering viral behavior, merely having a specific site mutating is not sufficient for calling that mutated virus, a new strain.

    We called the B.1.1.7 a new strain once it accumulated 17 significant mutations. These viruses have been evolving simultaneously, with time, since the beginning of the pandemic. The emergency of the UK, SA, and Brazilian strains got spotted by the lay media about at the same time... it doesn't mean that these mutations are the same virus wildly mutating fast and creating 3 strains in one month. These are parallel evolutionary lines.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    fiddlerdave likes this.
  23. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    13,499
    Likes Received:
    4,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Seasonal flu seems to have mutated into Corona
     
    James California likes this.
  24. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Generally speaking, mutations often make a virus less deadly. It's like a survival strategy, in terms of evolutionary advantage: the more lethal a strain is, the more short-lived it is, given that if you kill your host, you die too. Generally speaking. Because of course it's not what happens in ALL cases. Currently the B.1.1.7 is suspected of actually being slightly more deadly, contrary to initial assessments.

    By now it appears all but certain that this virus will stay endemic and we'll have to deal with it for the duration, with tweaked vaccines every year, much like the flu shot.
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  25. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    8,378
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Huh, are you being sarcastic? These are vastly different viruses. One is from the coronavirus family. The other one is from the influenza family. There is no such thing as an influenza virus becoming a coronavirus. Gee!
     
    fiddlerdave and Sallyally like this.

Share This Page