Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Greatest I am, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How can a lie be distinquished from simply being incorrect? If we don't have the right to be 'wrong,' we dont have any rights at all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That hasn't been the problem.

    For 4 long years Trump had his administration lie to us on a number of topics when the truth was VERY WELL KNOW.

    In fact, that was a central feature of his attempt to overthrow our democracy and a major excuse for ignoring the fact that hundreds of thousands of Americans were dying under his watch.

    The problems American has had with lies really don't have anything at all to do with people not knowing better. Those kinds of mistakes more or less take care of themselves.
     
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  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would you say 'the election was stolen' is a lie? Because I know for a fact that I believe Biden won via fraud, which means I'm not lying when I say so (and I was saying so before Trump ever did, so I didn't get it from him...).

    ...or are we talking about when Trump 'lied' about stacking cheeseburgers to the moon and such?

    I hope you're not suggesting that speech that goes against that which is 'very well known' is thus 'lies.'
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
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  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This has gone to numerous analysts and to the courts.

    IN NO CASE has there been found ANY evidence of this election being stolen.

    And, the lie was that such evidence was in the possession of key republicans. Trump claimed that HE had such evidence. Giuliani claimed that HE had such evidence. Etc. They went to court something more than 20 times and lost every case. In fact, they didn't even show evidence of the election being stolen!!

    In ALL those cases, those who claimed they had such evidence were LIARS.

    And, not ONCE did they make such claims in court, because had they done that, there would have been serious ramifications for them making false claims. You can't lie in court.
     
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  5. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Oh of course not wil. Hell we have a voting system that is lock down incontrovertibly fool proof!
    You were not there, you were not privy to any of the process!


    There have been a few, well-publicised cases, such as in the 2018 North Carolina primary, which was re-run after a consultant for the Republican candidate tampered with voting papers.

    New York, nearly 100,000 ballots were resent to voters after some names and addresses were printed incorrectly.

    Wisconsin, mail that included some absentee ballots was found in a ditch near the town of Greenville. How this happened remains unclear, despite investigation. The White House alleged fraud.

    Pennsylvania, nine discarded military ballots were discovered. Seven of them, according to the US Department for Justice, "were cast for presidential candidate Donald Trump".

    New Jersey, a mail carrier was charged after dumping hundreds of items of post in a dumpster, including almost 100 election ballots. Once found, the mail was sent on to its intended recipients.

    About 50,000 voters did receive the wrong ballot in the post, in Franklin County, Ohio, in early October.

    And the local elections board said everyone affected was sent the correct voter slip, with safeguards in place to ensure no-one voted twice.

    But there is no evidence this was done fraudulently.

    The board said the ballot error had been a "serious mistake".

    https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

    A Sampling of Recent Election Fraud Cases from Across the United States

    The Heritage Foundation’s Election Fraud Database presents a sampling of recent proven instances of election fraud from across the country. Each and every one of the cases in this database represents an instance in which a public official, usually a prosecutor, thought it serious enough to act upon it. And each and every one ended in a finding that the individual had engaged in wrongdoing in connection with an election hoping to affect its outcome — or that the results of an election were sufficiently in question and had to be overturned. This database is not an exhaustive or comprehensive list. This database is intended to demonstrate the vulnerabilities in the election system and the many ways in which fraud is committed.

    1,308 Proven instances of voter fraud


    [​IMG]

    With this kind of impenetrable security who would possibly question election fraud! Certainly not you, right wil?

    As I said the process is insecure, and we know for a fact vote fraud take place all the time, just because trump couldnt prove it does not mean it did not happen.

    Even murders go unresolved, NO EVIDENCE just a dead body, the person is still dead despite the inability to catch the perp and prove it in court.

    We need a unified secure process for our voting system, its easy to devise a fool proof voting system, we do not have anything remotely close to that now and will never get it, especially when people are more concerned with which candidate got in than the process itself, it will forever be brushed under the table as merely sour grapes by the loser.

    Next time election fraud will put the person you hate in there!

    .garbage in garbage out, you get what you pay for.



    Wow are you ever naive, attorneys lie all the time in court.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    You don't have squat that could possible change any election - and most definitely not on purpose.


    ==>>Trump lied and encouraged insurrectionists to attempt to overthrow our democracy. The broke into the Capitol and went looking for our vice president and congressmen who were at work there. They killed a guard. They stated that they intended to kill elected officials.

    IN AMERICA they did that!
     
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  7. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Even murders go unresolved, NO EVIDENCE just a dead body, the person is still dead despite the inability to catch the perp and prove it in court.

    No evidence ≠ No election fraud.

    Do you get it now?

    Do you need pretty crayolas?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  8. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    Far from being proof of organized, large-scale vote-by-mail fraud, the Heritage database presents misleading and incomplete information that overstates the number of alleged fraud instances and includes cases where no crime was committed.
     
  9. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    What no citation wil? I listened to his speeches seems you have a vivid imagination.
     
  10. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    what a wacky thing to say since there is no way catch anyone at anything when the **** is left laying around. Are you trying to post jokes about this?
    [​IMG]

    Clearly you have no clue what evidence or a secure system is.

    You and wil are seriously going to toot your horns there is no evidence when all the mail in ballots are laying around totally unprotected?

    ****ing seriously?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  11. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    The CT Kool-Aid is all yours, I never touch the stuff.
     
  12. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    My first allegiance isn't to my country. Isn't even in the top 5.
     
  13. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Still pretending you have proof there was no fraud?
    Any secure system can be proven to be secure.
    Prove it!
    Mail in ballots are a joke, and not a very funny one.

    Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that just because no evidence was presented that is proof there was no fraud.

    This guy can explain the situation far better than me. He perfectly describes the naive red/white/blue you champion and promote out here with your ct pejoratives and softpeddling the gorilla thats stepping on your toe.

     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  14. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's a not so difficult question actually....
    If the "simply being incorrect" is a deliberate lame excuse to ignore what is true....then it is a lie.
    You wouldn't allow your teenage offspring to get away with it...
    yet you think it's acceptable for adults to lie as long as it gets you what you want.
     
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  15. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah, a psychic! :rolleyes:

    And here is the main problem- people jumping to incorrect conclusions about other peoples intent. If I were to play the same game as you, you would be LYING about me. But just because I know you are wrong about me does not mean I know you are lying about me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  16. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The fact that you are asking such a lame question as the one below....
    ...suggests to me you are defending the "alternate fact" peddlers/believers....
    and that you have learned nothing at all from the tRump circus.
    You would not allow your own children to lie and behave like tRump supporters....so why would you try to defend their insanity?
     
  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My children are my responsibility, as yours are yours. Minor's rights are limited by their parents. Neither you nor I are responsible for other adults. I defend only the rights of those who are not my (or your) responsibility to speak their mind.

    Or to put another way:
    “I wholly disagree with what you say and will contend to the death for your right to say it."

    It may surprise you to know- neither Trump nor I nor anyone else are 'your children.' Though your demonstrated desire to treat folks as if they are is telling of your mindset.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  18. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    If you cannot tell the difference, that is on you.

    Did you drink the bleach when Trump suggested it was a remedy for Covid?

    Do you fall on your knees for a genocidal god?

    The world has been tolerating religious liars forever.

    Regards
    DL
     
  19. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who shall be the arbiter of determining whom is lying and whom is merely incorrect, and what shall be the prescribed punishment for the guilty?
     
  20. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    That is about my level. But to think I can protect me and mine without the state, is too stupid to consider. That is why I put the state first.

    If you never said the pledge of allegiance, I guess you are an honest person.

    I would have thought that the good of the many would outweigh the good of the few for you, but if you think you can defend yours effectively against some threat, think again.

    Regards
    DL
     
  21. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    We are all judges of all we hear. We are the arbiters of what we say is fact and what we say is fiction, faith or belief.

    Facts are the only important thing when judging.

    Just because a believer might believe a bunch of fantasy, it does not mean they are telling the truth of the issue. It is their truth only and not facts to anyone else, and that makes it a lie, opinion or speculative nonsense, depending on how it is presented.

    Regards
    DL
     
  22. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So are you advocating any official action be taken against those that lie or not? Because if not, then we're each left to distinguish for ourselves, as is already the case...and as it, imo, should remain.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  23. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.

    We should tighten our fraud laws and have Trump and religious types be recognized and pay for the lies they spew in the public arena.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  24. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Only Trump and the religious? All religious types? Pay how?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  25. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you're implying my mindset is that some adults behave like children most of their lives....
    then you are quite correct. Why shouldn't I expect adults to act their age? And why is it that you don't expect the same?
    You think childish lies and behavior by grownups should be ignored?
     

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