Renewable Energy Surpasses Fossil Fuel in Europe in 2020

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by WillReadmore, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    FFS your being beyond obtuse.

    No matter how many people they get in the house, they cannot pass ANY legislation without the Senate. YOUR POINT IS MOOT because they cant win with just the house.

    The Senate this cycle was a republican majority, that represented 20 million LESS Americans. That fact alone destroy your attempted BS claim.

    You ignore the actual process to make some BS political point that literally has no merit to the end point you claim.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
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  2. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Europe's combined market size is larger than the US's, both in GDP and in revenue generated. Also, capitalisms is a system of international trade, as a opposed to nationalized markets. In terms of international trade, the market value for fossil fuels is declining, while the market value for renewable energy is increasing.

    The US can remain on fossil fuels if it so chooses, but in terms of trade value it would be a poor investment, as we would be losing out on potential exports
     
  3. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Inland Empire, for instance were closed by GE because sitting there waiting to be standby power was no longer economical. Ergo when Californians needed standby power, they got rolling blackouts instead.
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You need to look into your claims a LOT better than that.

    The Inland Empire plant was not built for fast restart capability, so it didn't work well in an environment where demand varies a lot. It was built for constant base load. It COULD have been built for fast restart, but it wasn't. And, it was determined that the required retrofit was too expensive to be economical.

    Plus it produced power at $57/MWHr, while several solar + battery power plants are being built to provide power at $40/MWHr.

    Inland Empire lost out because it is NOT COMPETITIVE.

    You should LIKE that if you are consumer. Why would you want to pay more?

    I think you need to explain what you are complaining about.
     
  5. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Government dependence? How so?
     
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  6. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Illegals do not vote. Time to move on to the next untruth.
     
  7. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    europeans and the chinese do not have a free market due to socialism and communism.

    America has deregulated markets which make fossil fuels in demand.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supply and demand
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The single fuel most used for creating electricity in Iowa is WIND.

    And, that comes in OUR nation due to OUR capitalism - which OUR government tilts toward fossil fuel by giving tax advantages to fossil fuel.

    As noted above, the Inland Empire gas plant in California is being dismantled after only 10 years of operation because it is NOT COMPETITIVE.

    Solar plants are planned that will produce elecricity for far less than the Inland Empire plant can.

    Again, US capitalism killed that plant.

    ==>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supply and demand[/QUOTE]
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Luckily, there is HUGE financial opportunity in battery technology.

    There is an amazing Tesla battery success story in Australia. Some area there was having to buy spot electricity at huge sums during heat season surges. Tesla storage batteries gave them enough battery capacity to save gigantic sums on buying that spot electricity.

    https://www.greentechmedia.com/article

    The CA Inland Empire gas fired electric generation plant that is being decommissioned after only 10 years (due to not producing price competitive electricity) is being taken over by a battery site. The problem with this plant is that they did not design it with the ability to start up rapidly due to deman surges. And, for some reason they had to charge $57 per MWHr - while solar sites being constructed appear to be meeting a $40 per MWHr price point. They may have to do with the billion dollar cost of the plant - not sure.

    The Inland Empire site is being purchased by a comany that plans to use huge electric storage batteries to mitigate peak demand periods - something like E. Musk did for Australia. Musk also sells home size batteries that can store roof top solar during the day and then keep the home off the grid after the home owners return from work.

    Solar sites there are being built in CA (and other places?) have designs for onsight battery capacity to allow them to sell power throughout the night.


    I agree that electricity storage is a huge deal.

    Recently I read a story about capacitors large enough to be useful in cars! Electric cars want to store the energy of breaking in their batteries. However, there is a LOT of loss and time delay in putting electricity back into batteries.

    However, capacitors can store electricity with essentially zero loss and zero time delay. The idea would be to have cars have enough capacitor storage to save far more breaking energy AND to make a significant part of recharging cars incredibly rapid -- without the problems related to fast-charging car batteries.

    There are all kinds of electricity storage methods - spinning a flywheel, hoisting a weight into the air, heating something (like the molton sodium of the al Noor plant in Morrocco), extracting hydrogen from water, chemical storage like in cell phones and electric cars - all these things are essentially battery technologies. I don't know what the various huge battery sites are doing.
     
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  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Civics clue: It only takes defeating cloture in the Senate to kill a bill.

    It doesn't even take half of just the Senate to ensure all of Congress is stymied.
     
  11. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    Again who is ranting about the Senate? Can you keep up with a thread or not.. The issue was an Executive Order... FFS.. BTW third time asking wtf "claim" are you saying i made?

    Back your **** up for once.
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    If you used your math it would be clear that renewable energy is above all other sectors in that report.

    If you want to know the full breakdown, then go for it!

    But, the root issue is that the US is seriously underestimating what renewable energy can do.

    Of course, the left wing bastion of Iowa knows.

    And, wind power is growing throughout the states from Texas to North Dakota.

    Is that the "leftists" you meant?
     
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  13. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Well thanks for the conformation Bro ;)
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    EO's are not sufficient to actually acomplish much of anything.

    Congressional action is erquired to solve this problem.

    We saw that under Obama, as the Democratic led congress depended on totally bipartisan committees in the House and Senate to come up with an immigration solution.

    Rubio and other Republicans touted the result as being something America needs.

    I'd point out that the solution they devised would still be a very good solution. Nothing has chaned enough to invalidate that bill.

    That bill would tighten visa requirements (how most come here and stay), provide $40 Billion for the southern border, and crank down on citizenship requirements for jobs in the USA.

    Obama would have signed that bill. It passed the Senate. It had the votes to pass the House, but the Republlican speaker would not allow it to come to a vote.

    So, weve had year after year after year with no solution - only EOs that obvioulsy do not solve the issue.
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    To what did I conform?
     
  16. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Well you could hire a million Americans to dig a lake with shovels too.. But by the time it was deep enough and filled with water to run Turbines we'd all be sitting around in the dark too ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  17. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    You figure it out...
     
  18. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    Strangely enough Obama did what you claimed he did not. His EO had nothing to do with Congress he was just did it on his own.

    Is NPR leftwing enough for you?
    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...nnounce-relief-for-up-to-5-million-immigrants
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he issued some EO's related to the subject. I DID NOT propose that he didn't.

    The point is that EOs are NOT A SOLUTION.

    We need a solution - not more tit for tat EOs.

    Obama made a serious attempt at driving a solution that Republicans and Democrats would accept and that is what his leadership was for Congress. Congress responded by setting up bipartisan committees that came up with a bill that address all the immigration issues.

    That bill is still on record. You can go read it if you actually care about this topic.
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Shielding some immigrants from immigration law is NOT A SOLUTION.

    Notice from your citation points out that Obama was pretty much hamstrung, because congress would not act.

    What we need is a solution, not a new raft of EOs countering each other every 4 or 8 years.
     
  21. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Who the [expletive] is Ember and Agora Energiewende and why should I believe their report has either accuracy or veracity?

    But if you are impressed by that sort of report (I am not) there is this.
    https://electrek.co/2020/12/31/us-consumes-green-energy-coal-first-time-since-1885/
     
  22. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Do you realize bringing immigrants from undeveloped countries to the US to own/drive cars and use air conditioning will have a negative impact on global warm?
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Those in many undeveloped countries use energy sources that are worse than ours from a global warming point of view.

    So, even if I adopted your view of other human beings, I doubt you have an issue here.
     
  25. Indlib

    Indlib Well-Known Member

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    The link didn't seem to work. I am curious the capacity of that bank. I can't really say but I can imagine a battery bank that reserves enough power to run a substantial city (if that is the case) for a few hours would be very costly.

    I used to work as a gas turbine power plant operator and coincidently (small world) went to a user group conference with GE in Riverside, CA...probably around 2005. Riverside utility used the same GE10 gas turbines that we used. The bottom line is GE sucks but that is another story.

    Agreed their are a lot of emerging technologies for energy storage. It will be interesting to see how this field plays out. If there is a breakthrough in storage it could turn AOCs ridiculous green deal into a potential reality.
     

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