Ralphs, Food 4 Less to close 25% of Long Beach stores over extra $4 per hour

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by sec, Feb 2, 2021.

  1. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Curious when you have negative cost of living will you adjust wages downward?

    The COL is different in every few miles of the USA. How would you justify $15/hour for workers in Mayberry RFD and those in San Francisco, CA?
     
  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if congress gives themselves a negative cost of living, then yes, it would go down

    tie it to congress

    as for the States, they can raise it higher if they feel the need, this is just the bottom
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
  3. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Which issues would you resolve and how?
     
  4. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow. With that sage advice I should have given up around age 20, I was working full time and scratching by. Fortunately I didnt have this great wisdom back then so I worked 2 jobs 7 days a week while I transitioned into a career.

    I'm really glad I took dad's advice instead.

    In the meantime I'll repeat an old statement, when min wage hits 15 I will likely use my free time (my job is super.easy) and skillset to replace a current $15 worker.

    Right now I have no incentive to steal someone's job because I'd rather goof off than make $9 to supplement my income. But with the rising prices and rising wages, I'll be incentivized.

    The wage increase will mean low productivity employees will be fired, those that survive the wave will be.faced with the new challenge of skilled applicants that previously had no interest in taking their jobs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  5. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

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    The one I’ve been discussing in this thread would be a good start.
     
  6. Enuf Istoomuch

    Enuf Istoomuch Well-Known Member

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    The problem is local city governments slapping on additional wages to what the State mandates as a minimum. Such that for a big chain like Kroger pays $14 an hour as the statewide minimum but $18 an hour in Long Beach. They are forced to do this outside of the union contract process. Consider that Kroger would be paying more than the minimum wage already, but with the city's added $4 an hour suddenly the affordability of the contract wages, which were negotiated with the union, is wiped out.

    Workers share of the profit, paid as hourly wages, has been shrinking for decades. The minimum wage has not kept up with that, it did need to go up and in many businesses the large corporations are easily profitable enough to share a bigger slice of the pie with their workers. But this is not true of absolutely every industry or business. For a local government to blindly slap on higher wages with no consideration of the business reality is reckless, foolhardy and destructive.

    The proper way to handle this would have been to sit down with Kroger, the union and examine the numbers. Figure out if there was a number where this short term "Danger Pay" could work.

    That number may well have been zero. Or, 79 cents. Whatever it could have been we will never know because the city of Long Beach acted stupidly.
     
  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    When I was a kid long ago, it was typical for workers to accept an entry wage (minimum wage) then hopefully work their way to higher positions. I think this wage was in place for 30-90 days giving both the worker and employer time to evaluate the situation. This entry wage, or minimum wage, was NEVER meant to serve as a living wage. The idea today that the MW should be a 'living wage' is foolishness. Keep in mind that approximately 75 million US workers today earn $17/hour or less! This median wage of $35K IS NOT arbitrary or planned or a conspiracy. It's based on supply and demand of labor, COL, etc. which finds an equilibrium over time. IMO it's careless for society and/or government to intervene in labor compensation forcing silly political policy into an extremely complex system...
     
  8. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

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    Hey good for you. Sounds like you made it and worked hard for what you have. You should be proud of what you accomplished.

    That said generational poverty is very real and many people, in spite of how hard they work, will never make it out. I find that unacceptable.

    As for you picking up a second job, you do you. If you’re willing to put in the hours you deserve it as much as anyone else.
     
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  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Congress is required by Article I, Section 6, of the Constitution to determine its own pay. In the past, Congress periodically enacted specific legislation to alter its pay; the last time this occurred affected pay in 1991. More recently, pay has been determined pursuant to laws establishing formulas for automatic adjustments.

    The Ethics Reform Act of 1989 established the current automatic annual adjustment formula, which is based on changes in private sector wages as measured by the Employment Cost Index (ECI). The adjustment is automatic unless denied statutorily, although the perc entage may not exceed the percentage base pay increase for General Schedule (GS) employees. Member pay has since been frozen in two ways: (1) directly, through legislation that freezes salaries for Members but not for other federal employees, and (2) indirectly, through broader pay freeze legislation that covers Members and other specified categories of federal employees.

    Members of Congress last received a pay adjustment in January 2009. At that time, their salary was increased 2.8%, to $174,000. Aprovision in P.L. 111-8 prohibited any pay adjustment for 2010. Under the pay adjustment formula, Members were originally scheduled to receive an adjustment in January 2010 of 2.1%, although this would have been revised downward automatically to 1.5% to match the GS base pay adjustment. Members next were scheduled to receive a 0.9% pay adjustment in 2011. The pay adjustment was prohibited by P.L. 111-165. Additionally, P.L. 111-322 prevented any adjustment in GS base pay before December 31, 2012. Since the percentage adjustment in Member pay may not exceed the percentage adjustment in the base pay of GS employees, Member pay was also frozen during this period. If not limited by GS pay, Member pay could have been adjusted by 1.3% in 2012. The ECI formula established a maximum potential pay adjustment in January 2013 of 1.1%. P.L. 112-175 extended the freeze on GS pay rates for the duration of this continuing resolution, which also extended the Member freeze since the percentage adjustment in Member pay may not exceed the percentage adjustment in GS base pay. Subsequently, Member pay for 2013 was further frozen in P.L. 112-240. The maximum potential 2014 pay adjustment of 1.2%, or $2,100, was denied by P.L. 113-46. The maximum potential January 2015 Member pay adjustment was 1.6%, or $2,800. President Obama proposed a 1.0% increase in the base pay of GS employees, which would automatically have limited any Member pay adjustment to 1.0%. P.L. 113-235 contained a provision prohibiting any Member pay adjustment. The maximum potential January 2016 pay adjustment of 1.7%, or $3,000, would have been limited to 1.0%, or $1,700, due to the GS base pay increase. Member pay for 2016 was frozen by P.L. 114-113. The maximum potential January 2017 pay adjustment of 1.6%, or $2,800, would have been limited to 1.0%, or $1,700, due to the GS base pay increase. Member pay for 2017 was frozen by P.L. 114-254. The maximum potential January 2018 pay adjustment of 1.8%, or $3,100, was automatically limited to 1.4%, or $2,400, before being frozen by P.L. 115-141. The maximum potential January 2019 pay adjustment of 2.3%, or $4,000, was automatically limited to 1.4%, or $2,400, before being frozen at the 2009 level by P.L. 115-244. The maximum potential January 2020 pay adjustment of 2.6%, or $4,500, was prohibited by P.L. 116-94. The maximum potential January 2021 pay adjustment of 2.5%, or $4,400, was automatically limited to 1.0%, or $1,700, before being prohibited by P.L. 116-260.
     
  10. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    These Right Wing faux horrors just never end.

    Shoplifting is far from "decriminalized". Even if someone could shoplift $700 and be automatically "innocent" (which doesn't happen), be assured if someone shoplifts a second time, there are plenty of criminal charges to able to be able to be applied, and to shoplift a 3rd time, penalties like 10 and 20 years in jail can apply for that $20 "heist".
     
  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Since a government is totally incompetent at running businesses, it shouldn't try.
     
  12. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    So they are keeping 75% of their stores in the same area open??? In other words this is giving them a perfect excuse to close their stores which aren't performing well or are in declining neighborhoods????
     
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  13. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    There just isn’t conclusive evidence raising minimum wage has consistent positive societal effects. In fact there’s evidence to the contrary. Here’s one of the best studies of effects of raising minimum wage on property crime that we’ve been discussing.

    Link.
    https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w25647/w25647.pdf

    We’ve been implementing interventions to solve these problems for decades with mostly negative unintended consequences and very minor, if any, positive effects.
     
  14. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Food 4 Less? Selling things cheap leads to not a lot of earnings. These budget joints are not getting with the times to raise their prices. Otherwise, they are just catering to the cheap folks which will drive them out of business in the long run.

    Also, watch prices rise as we go to a $15 minimum wage. It won't be the minimum wage itself that causes the rise in prices, but, rather, the cheapo businesses go out of business because they only attract customers who want things to be cheap.
     
  15. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Two points here. First, facts aren’t left or right wing. Second, I’m far from right wing! :)
    Here are some more facts to get you up to speed.
    Source link:

    https://www.city-journal.org/west-coast-shoplifting-boom

    Now, please provide evidence multiple offenses are being prosecuted and put away for decades. Property crime is up, convictions and arrests are down, as well as prison populations. So your theory that these crimes are being curbed or punished is simply false. Unless of course you can provide evidence all the increase in property crime is first offenders who steal once and then end their career of crime before their second or third offense that could get them 20 on the inside. :)

    To be clear, the drug offense provisions of proposition 47 are excellent, long overdue, and should be expanded in CA and federally as well.
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Inflation is ahead of the min wage right now, min wage needs to catch up

    inflation and wage are always chasing each other, if they were not, we would all still make .50 cents an hour

    and if were ever gonna pay of this 30 Trillion debt, we will need inflation

    Republicans borrow and spend is why we need inflation right now (but we had to have those tax cuts for the rich)
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    How would you justify the minimum wage in the first place? It provides an excuse for businesses to underpay. It is an involvement in business where government has no business.
     
  18. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

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    Well I can’t refute the contents of the paper. I’ll concede that increasing the minimum wage would not reduce crime.

    That said I don’t believe it’s a sufficient argument against raising the minimum wage. The net benefits to the economy would far outweigh these possible losses.

    When it comes down to it I reject the idea that America must have an impoverished class of people in order to function.
     
  19. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Im guessing all the people saying its no big deal to raise the wage are not employers or business owners yet somehow know whats best?

    pathetic
     
  20. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

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    I’m guessing all the people saying it’s no big deal to free the slaves are not slavers or land owners yet somehow know what’s best?

    Pathetic.
     
  21. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    funny how you insert race card into a non racial topic
     
  22. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

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    It’s not the race card. I was demonstrating that your statement is ridiculous. The owner class is incentivized to extract as much value from laborers as possible while paying them as little as possible. If the owner class had their way we’d all be their slaves. Forgive me if I don’t hold their opinion in high regard when it comes to whether or not significant portions of the population should live in poverty in spite of providing an honest day’s labor.
     
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  23. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The minimum wage is a number pulled out of someone's ass, especially at $7.25/hour, that serves almost no purpose whatsoever. Back in the 30's with the US suffering from the Great Depression, when many people were desperate to work, the MW was a good idea to prevent unscrupulous employers from taking advantage of the situation. But that scenario has not existed for decades. Today the MW is almost meaningless...
     
  24. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Nothing is free!
     
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  25. DaveBN

    DaveBN Well-Known Member

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    In what situation today are people not desperate to work? Having a job is compulsory for anyone who wants a roof over their head and the ability to purchase essential goods such as food and clothing. Low unemployment does nothing to change that.

    As I’ve already mentioned within this thread owners are incentivized by profit margins to extract as much value from laborers as possible while paying as little to them as they can. You can bet that any job that currently pays minimum wage, a level of income that guarantees poverty for those who receive it, would be paying less if they legally could.

    The minimum wage is 100% necessary and should be raised.
     

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