Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

No Gift, your logic is like quicksand not solid as a rock because it was based on your opinion/ making up stuff and so obviously it has no biblical support. I've already told you, you can't make up stuff, the Bible is clear that you can't be adding anything that God has not said. So your logic is not logic but it is illogical, flawed, invalid.

Here let me give you an example of using your equation A + B = C, where what I insert in C complements A + B to make it logically sound and flawless.

A) God is All Powerful, B) is the Creator of Humans...C) He revealed to His created human beings that He created the earth the heavens (universe) and all living beings.

We know this equation is logically sound and flawless, A, B, & C all complement each other. It has biblical support, has scientific support.

For someone to create the universe, human beings and all other living beings, He has to be All Powerful, human beings are aware that God created them because He revealed to them in His Best Selling Book of All-Time that He created the earth, the universe and all living beings on earth.

Our scientific community not too long ago came to the conclusion that the universe had a beginning, (Einstein's theory of relativity) The scientific community understands that whatever has a beginning, has a cause. Nothing causes itself to exist, so who caused the universe and humans to come into existence must be eternal. To be eternal is to be All Powerful.

We Read in Scripture:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1 NLT

2 Before the mountains were born, before you gave birth to the earth and the world, from beginning to end, you are God. Psalm 90:2 NLT

20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Romans 1:20 NLT

 

the gaping hole in your logic, is that you need to first prove this god exists, in order to claim any of the above.

 

Who said I was proving that God exists? I didn't say I was doing that. All I did was make a logical point based on material that's already out there for support.

This wasn't an exercise of me trying to prove the existence of God. I was just illustrating to Gift that his form of logic was flawed because it was based on his own assumptions/opinions, he had no biblical support, no scientific support where as you see that was not the case for me.

I pointed out my biblical support as well as my scientific support. So that's what this was all about but still you've got to admit, it was still compelling what I presented, short of proving anything.

I already know the fact, the fact is nobody on God's green earth can prove/disprove the existence of Almighty God!

 

Again, the gaping hole in your logic is you have to first show this god exists in order for your premise to be logically sound.

 

He doesn't need to prove anything. Religions cannot be proven/disproven. Religions are simply believed in on a faith basis.

 

Again, he doesn't need to prove anything. He simply accepts Christianity as true on a faith basis, as do I. There is nothing more than either of us need to do. Attempting to prove a circular argument is a circular argument fallacy, so it would be illogical for us to attempt to prove Christianity. The most we can do is provide you with supporting evidence for it.

 

The Ten Commandments are as they are listed in The Bible.

I am not interested in your Church of No God fundamentalism. You cannot prove a circular argument, dude... Circular Argument Fallacy.

 

His forum posts seem to indicate that he is a Christian.

If faith can be "proven", then it isn't faith.

Not a proof of anything.

Circular Argument Fallacy (fundamentalism).

I don't need to justify my faith to you. Why do you feel the need to justify YOUR faith in the Church of No God?

False Dichotomy Fallacy.

I simply understand what religion is and how it works.

Contextomy Fallacy.
Circular Argument Fallacy (fundamentalism).

Circular Argument Fallacy (fundamentalism).
Word Redefinition Fallacy (abuse of the word "real" or "reality").

YOU are being just as religious as he is dude, except YOU are being a FUNDAMENTALIST and he is not. HE is being rational and YOU aren't...

 

which is why I pointed out his logic, has a gaping hole.

 

I have no problem with either of you believing in anything you want. But when you try to make a "logical" argument for the existence of a god, you are going to get called on it.

 

There are many logical arguments for the existence of God. However, God's existence still has a faith basis.

Christianity is the circular argument that "Jesus Christ exists and is who he says he is (namely, the Son of God)". All other arguments for Christianity stem from this circular argument that is accepted as true on a faith basis.

Same applies to the Church of No God (which is commonly referred to as "atheism", although a-theism literally means "without theism" rather than the theistic belief that god/s do not exist, hence why I specifically use the terminology "Church of No God" when referring to such people). The Church of No God makes the circular argument that "god/s do not exist". All other arguments for the Church of No God stem from this circular argument that is accepted as true on a faith basis.

Christianity and Church of No God are mutually exclusive religions, meaning that they both can't simultaneously be true. I personally accept Christianity as true and reject the Church of No God as false.

 

What a mind twisting exercise in denial,, and there is no flaw in logic .. regardless of whether 1) or 2) is in place of C.

A + B will still = C - and you are on the verge of trying to deny the claim that the sun will come up tomorrow.

So once again

If A) God is almighty and B) God created humans .. then 1) he could have created humans any way he wanted and 2) did create humans with what ever characteristics he wanted.

so in the case of 1) God could have created humans to be robots - and not given them the ability to love - which refutes your silly claim

and 2) "Did created humans" so rather than do 1) which he could have done .. he gave humans the ability to love one another.

No one said God chose for humans .. but your denial of the fact that God did in fact give humans the ability to love .. assuming A) and B) - is akin to denial that water is wet.

You are in serious thought avoidance mode ..

 

1) Even if your substitution for C followed from an and B ( which is doesn't) this would not change the fact that both of my substitutions for C were correct and logical .. and both refuted your nonsense claim that given A and B - God did not give the ability for humans to engage in homosexual activity.

So your claim is still abject nonsense .. and refuted by both points made in the previous post.

and

2) It does not follow "Non Sequitur Fallacy" - that because God created humans - that he revealed to these humans who it was that created them.

 

Are you really willing to go down that road?

If the Jesus character was just joking about being able to command a mountain to jump into sea if you have enough faith, then why wasn't he also joking about being the son of God and being able to give gullible people eternal life? If he lied about one thing what makes him credible about other things?

If the Jesus character was still wiggling on the cross you might have a case that he is a God but we know that he isn't.

 

As I've said, you don't even know what the real Ten Commandments are because you have never actually read the fairy tale. You shouldn't get your religious beliefs from silly Hollywood movies.

Here is an easy exercise if you have the guts to do it. Get a pan and some blank sheets of paper. Open up your Bible and start reading from Exodus chapter 19 all the way through to the end of Exodus chapter 34. As you read, summarize what you read every few verses in your own words. Do this all the way through. By the time you get to Exodus 34:28 you will know what the real Ten Commandments are. You will also be able to understand that ALL of the biblical stories are based upon one or more of the real Ten Commandments found in Exodus 34:11-28. The miracles are based on Exodus 34:10. Now stop boiling a young goat in its mother's milk.

I'll bet that you won't do that because if you did it would mean that you have believed lies ever since you became a believer. And that will wreck your version of reality.

 

Atheism of course is not a circular argument. It is the lack of belief in a god or gods. By definition that is not a religion or a church. There are no logical arguments for the existence of a god.

 

Ok I can agree with you here, essentially nothing can be proven one way or the other.

However that hasn't stop people from having belief/faith based upon evidence they have compiled, gathered throughout the course of mankind's history that are in essence reasonable/rational evidence for supporting the belief of the existence of an Almighty God.

Here is a few of the evidence, we have the historicity of a man named Jesus Christ, we have the historical document/book the Holy Bible, we have archaeological findings authenticating the Bible by validating many of the facts of the Bible, we have philosophical as well as scientific evidence, we have our observations of nature, we see the order and the complexity of the cosmos like it was masterfully designed to run fine-tuned by an highly intelligent designer's handiwork. That designer is of course The Eternal One, Almighty God!

What evidence has the atheist worldview compiled and gathered that's reasonable/rational evidence for supporting the belief of the non-existence of God?

Well, I do enjoy my life, have always enjoyed it but of course there was some moments when I was down in the dumps, but eventually bouncing back. So over all I can't complain too much.

I can honestly say I do not spend anytime worrying about whose god is more correct because in my mind/perspective there is only one true God and that is the Triune Christian God, The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit.

And I believe someday I will have a much better life...a trillion billion times better!...an eternal life with our Triune God and the rest of the saved people in heaven and live happily-ever-after!

We Read in Scripture:

The New Jerusalem

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.” Revelation 21:1-4 NLT

 

No because as Christians we have learned that God has no favorites. But He truly loves everyone, He truly wants everyone to live with Him in heaven but He knows not everyone will live with Him in heaven. He has given everyone the gift of free will to choose to believe in Him or to choose not to believe in Him. Sadly most people will not live with Him because they don't believe in Him.

A passage in Scripture from our Lord Savior Jesus Christ tells us this.

We Read in Scripture:

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

13 "You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it." Matthew 7:13-14 NLT

 

Proof? ...who muttered the word...proof?...certainly it wasn't me. I didn't say the words, "We do have proof" but what I actually said was, "We do have evidence" Furthermore the evidence I presented wasn't just solely on the Bible, I had other evidence outside of the Bible as well.

 

There is no evidence that your god exists.

 

Not true, the reality is, it has absolutely no evidence whatsoever! The pink flying unicorn with a purple tongue...or was it purple loins?...lol

I keep forgetting what was purple, well anyway let me continue what I was saying, the purple flying unicorn was created by the people of the Church of No God fundamentalism primarily to mock religion. Mocking a religion in an attempt to achieve a goal of discrediting it, is not evidence that God doesn't exist as these fundamentalist falsely think it is.

That's been a common theme for the Church of No God fundamentalist...to mock...they really have nothing positive to offer and the ironic/funny thing about it, is that they don't even realize what they are doing is faith based driven.

So they are people of faith too! Except I truly believe they are on the wrong side of the faith totem pole.

We Read in Scripture:

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

26 Eight days later the disciples were together again, and this time Thomas was with them. The doors were locked; but suddenly, as before, Jesus was standing among them. “Peace be with you,” he said. 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe!”

28 “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

29 Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.” John 20:26-29 NLT

 

And yet the King Joke Vision did exactly that for centuries.

They erroneously translated Psalm 137:5 as "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning."

They add "her cunning" because they didn't know how to correctly translate the passage because they aren't connected to any god-thing nor are they filled with the Holy Flatulence to be able to translate the passage correctly.

Oooops....

 

If you yourself don't have evidence that your flying purple unicorn created the universe then my work is done...lol

 

RE: Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity
SUBTOPIC: Validity of Absence of Evidence
⁜→ Mitt Ryan,åΩ, et al,

BLUF: The "Logical Fallacy" (ad hoc Rescue) that the conclusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence - is unsound and invalid.

[••] Dr Bo Bennett PhD. “Argument from Silence”. Logically Fallacious

(COMMENT)

The Absence of the Evidence that a "Pink Unicorn" is NOT the embodiment of the Supreme Being (Creator of the Universe) does not substantiate the conclusion that a "Pink Unicorn" did NOT create the Universe.

But really, this goes back to the argument that man cannot assign qualities and characteristics of a deity.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

I do have evidence, that tends to prove, a ground for belief. I just gave you one of the definitions of evidence that applies here.

Evidence can be defined as: That tends to prove; ground for belief.

The Holy Bible itself is one piece of evidence, after all it's an historical document...it just didn't pop out of thin air one day and now we have it in our possession. Christians believe it to be The Word of God.

I suggest you do some research regarding that Greatest Selling Book of All-Time.

Then we can go out further beyond the Bible and gather more evidence. There's the scientific evidence, the science community through Einstein's theory of relativity has theorized the universe had a beginning and so it had a cause and the universe was one big effect. You have heard of cause & effect...have you?

So we (Christians) believe it was God who caused the universe to come into existence. The science community understands that nothing can cause itself to come into existence. Surely you can believe that can't you?

How do you think you came into existence? You know you didn't cause yourself to come into existence. Your parents brought you into existence.

Then we have philosophical reasons that has reasonable/rational explanations. I suggest you do some research on that as well. I can't be doing all the work for you...lol

So anyway all these are evidence that tends to prove; ground for belief. Notice now I said "tends to prove" so don't cry out foul...I'm not saying the evidence I presented "proves" God exist. But they certainly are a ground for belief.

We Read in Scripture:

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

11 “God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers. 12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted in the same way." Matthew 5:11-12 NLT