Would the Founders Convict Trump and Bar Him From Office?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    When I listen to Trump speak, in the manner and fashion of your typical demagogue, a man whom I can't remember ever uttering a compound sentence, I can only remark on how far America has sunk from that of the caliber of men who existed at the time of America's beginnings. Reading the elevated, nuanced, eloquence of the works of the founding fathers, ( most of which was Hamilton's, we're told ) I look upon the current leadership in Congress, particularly on the republican side, with dismay (by virtue of their not convicting Trump, who most certainly should have been convicted). The article below especially illuminates this, it's worth a read. And, if anyone disagrees or cares to comment, please give your thoughts.

    Their fear of a direct democracy was real, and valid, given the harsh reality that a large swath of people are not well educated, nor particularly cognizant of the kinds of things that make for a great leader, who, by virtue of such, are easily persuaded by demagogues and men motivated by power and greed than what's best for the nation, who, if a direct democracy were the system adopted, the odds of such a leader being elected to the presidency are dramatically increased, hence the creation of systems of checks and balances, and the electoral college, they hoped, would curtail the probability. There was the belief that nations who allowed for direct democracy would inevitably elect men who would destroy the nation. Does not history prove this?

    I, personally, am conflicted with the idea. Part of me wants a direct democracy, yet I read with concern the words of Hamilton and the forefathers warning me of it's dangers. However, the electoral college of today was not what Hamilton proposed. Today, it's merely a rubber stamp for what the electorate of a given state wants. The system today clearly does not function as the forefathers wanted. I believe sincerely they wouldn't have wanted a man like Trump to ever have become President and hoped that the system they created would have prevented it. But, we have whittled the system down from it's original design ( have we not?), and, as such, the system has allowed Trump to have been elected. The sad truth is, 35% of the nation does not understand why he is dangerous to the nation, they believe economic statistics are the best measure of a president ( they are one measure, but not the most important measure). Anyway, I invite others to read and comment on this article.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/opinion/trump-impeachment-founders.html

    They believed as a matter of civic principle that ethical leadership is the glue that holds a constitutional republic together.

    If the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention in 1787 were sitting today as jurors in the Senate impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump, one thing seems certain based on the historical record. Acting with vigor and dispatch, they would cast two near unanimous votes: first, to convict the president of an impeachable offense, and second, to disqualify him from holding future federal office.

    They would vote in this way, unmoved by partisan passions or the defense’s claim that the Senate lacks jurisdiction, because they believed as a matter of civic principle that ethical leadership is the glue that holds a constitutional republic together. It was a principle they lived by and one they infused into every aspect of the Constitution they debated that summer in Philadelphia nearly 234 years ago.

    As James Madison put it in Federalist No. 57, “The aim of every political constitution is, or ought to be, first to obtain for rulers men who possess most wisdom to discern, and most virtue to pursue, the common good of the society.”

    In their speeches to the Constitutional Convention, delegates reiterated this point about a constitutional republic’s dependence on virtuous leadership almost every day of debates.
     
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  2. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    The question should not be IF the founders would impeach and convict him. The question should be how soon would they have removed him. I would say within his first 6 months in office, at most. And for a sizable list of Articles of Impeachment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
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  3. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yes. He would have been lucky if he missed the tar and feathers.
     
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  4. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In all likelihood he would have been hung.
     
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  5. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The founders would've started openly revolting against our govt long ago, shooting both dem and pub politicians as evil tyrants. Not sure what point ur trying to make here....
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
  6. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah yes, the inevitable false equivalence.
     
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  7. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    The framers whose greatest fear was congress taking advantage of impeachment to wrest power from the executive branch are rolling over in their graves with grief.
     
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  8. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The framers were devoted patriots and as such would have hung Trump (and others) from the highest tree available.
     
  9. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Odd that a Democrat would ask what the founding fathers would do while pushing gun control and higher taxes. What was the tax rate when they started killing the British?
     
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  10. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're getting good at the deflection game.
     
  11. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nice deflection.
     
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  12. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, they would promptly commit suicide.
     
  13. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thread win!

    The revisionism by Leftists never stops.
     
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  14. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Source that this was their greatest fear?
    Over half the nation (60%+) — ya know, “We the people” — think the impeachment was justified.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  15. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Just more virtue signaling...
     
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  16. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Wrong.
     
  17. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There hasn't ever been anything done by a president of the United States that is more deserving of impeachment, removal, and disqualification from future office than what Trump did. He violated his oath and was derelict in his duties. He tried to overturn fair and free elections, using a mob of rabid followers he spent two months inciting, to accomplish his goal, trying to prevent the counting of electoral votes. And did nothing to stop the violence (the dereliction of duty part). Then what, if he had succeeded, he'd declare martial law and stage a coup declaring himself the winner? Be crowned as the usurper? What exactly was he trying to do if not destroy our democratic system? If this is not impeachable I don't know what else is. And this, after 66 courts tossed his lies off the window and all electoral officials from both parties in all 50 states confirmed the results as accurate and correct.

    But he's out of office so good riddance. Now, the 14th amendment needs to be used to prevent him from ever holding office again.

    Seems like Mitch McConnell agrees, but that weasel used as excuse that Trump is no longer in office. Well, McConnell being the one that prevented the trial from happening while Trump was in office, that's rich.

    During the Mueller probe: "Donald Trump can't be prosecuted because he is the president." During the Senate trial: "Donald Trump can't be prosecuted because he is not the president."

    Whoa.

    But then, what can we expect from the GOP in terms of consistency?

    "Judge Garland can't get a nomination hearing because we are 10 months from an election."

    "Judge Barrett can get a nomination hearing despite the fact that we are 3 weeks from an election."
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  18. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Interesting to see how the framers had so many "greatest fears". And that those "fears" all just happen to favor Trump. Apparently they didn't fear so much a criminal President who cheated in the elections and tried to stop the election process so he could become the dictator. In other words, the framers never imagined "a Trump".
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  19. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Reality begs to differ but I know MAGA lives in a realm of alt-facts and conspiracy so I understand your confusion.
     
  20. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's rather odd that you missed the entire point of the OP, or perhaps not.
     
  21. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's precisely to stop someone like Trump that the Framers created the impeachment/removal/disqualification device.
     
  22. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I posted on this in another thread. I think it speaks volumes about what the people expect which may conflict with doing the right thing (honoring one's oath to the Constitution). I think we saw this with McConnell's double-standard (not voting to impeach but speaking out against Trump's role in the riot).

    In that regard, I believe the framers fully expected someone like Trump to be impeached and rightfully so.

     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  23. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    No they didn't. Twice the crazed progressive totalitarians lost impeachment because they were trying to convict him for constitutionally protected free speech.

    You want someone likely eligible for impeachment, look no further than Slow Joe, the Dimwitted Caesar trying to rule by Executive Decree, and for Bribery, and crime actually listed as justification for impeachment.

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. 3link

    3link Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pretty sure they would have adopted 11 amendments instead of 10, with the 11th being "No retards for president."
     
  25. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    You must hate McConnell.
     

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