Forensic audit discredits GOP's election conspiracy theory in Ariz

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Specious logic. Asserting that most people do not know about Qanon doesn't negate that Qanon has 3 - 4 million believers.

    4% of the electorate is 6.6 million. If 4% of Trump's base are Qanon believers, that's almost 3 million.

    Like I said, Qs following is in the millions, and all sources quoted point to that fact, which was the only point I raised. It's a big group, not a group in the 'hundreds' as you have attempted to falsely portray.
    I quoted several sources, not just the Guardian, but since you've engaged in a pseudo debate trick of trivializing that particular source, note that the Guardian's tabloid - format, began in 2018, is just that, adopting that PHYSICAL format done to cut printing costs. But, it's not a tabloid in journalistic quality, nor does it, even aesthetically, mimic a tabloid. It has won numerous awards, it is positioned as a news journal for the middle class working man and woman, non-elitist, etc:

    And let me remind you that quoting legitimate news sources is among the accepted methods of supporting any points offered in a debate.
    Most, if not all, of the following data points are sourced, just click on the bracketed annotations.

    The Guardian has been awarded the National Newspaper of the Year in 1998, 2005,[236] 2010[237] and 2013[19] by the British Press Awards, and Front Page of the Year in 2002 ("A declaration of war", 12 September 2001).[236][238] It was also co-winner of the World's Best-designed Newspaper as awarded by the Society for News Design (2005, 2007, 2013, 2014).[239]

    Guardian journalists have won a range of British Press Awards, including:[236]

    Other awards include:

    The Guardian, Observer and its journalists have also won numerous accolades at the British Sports Journalism Awards:

    The guardian.co.uk website won the Best Newspaper category three years running in 2005, 2006 and 2007 Webby Awards, beating (in 2005) The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal and Variety.[285] It has been the winner for six years in a row of the British Press Awards for Best Electronic Daily Newspaper.[286] The site won an Eppy award from the US-based magazine Editor & Publisher in 2000 for the best-designed newspaper online service.[287]

    In 2007, the newspaper was ranked first in a study on transparency that analysed 25 mainstream English-language media vehicles, which was conducted by the International Center for Media and the Public Agenda of the University of Maryland.[288] It scored 3.8 out of a possible 4.0.

    The Guardian and The Washington Post shared the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for public service reporting for their coverage of the NSA's and GCHQ's worldwide electronic surveillance program and the document leaks by whistleblower Edward Snowden.[289]


    So , I don't want to hear any crap about you delegitimizing the Guardian. If you want to holler 'liberal' fine. Left leaning and right leaning journals are quoted every day on this orum, the issue is one of extremes. Is it so extreme that the truth is obfuscated? Or is the left lean only insofar as news article selection which it's readership prefers, a tactic known as catering to your market, and since republicans are free market types, I fail to see that this is a legitimate criticism of a news journal, when they go around touting 'they are the party the free market' yet they complain when a news journal engages in free market principles. The issue is not article selection, as long as the articles selected have made a good faith effort to get at the truth, noting that no journal is perfect.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Every election has flaws. The ballots cast are over 165 million, in 50 different states, thousands of district branches, and numerous different systems used in a widely diffused and decentralized system what would be well nigh impossible to hijack. But, with a system like that, there are ALWAYS going to be discrepancies given the scope and size of it. There have been in EVERY election. You fix a few this year, and more will turn up next year of a different, and unpredicted, variety. The salient fact is are the anomolies sufficient to invalidate a result in a particular district or state? The answer is "no, no evidence of that has been produced in any court". The second salient question is 'is there any evidence supporting Trump's lie that 'democrats are committing fraud', NO, no evidence of that has been produced, and in most lawsuits by Trump and his minions, NO CLAIM OF FRAUD was ever made. Why? Because they can blather fraud in the media, but they can't do that in a court of law because they would be disbarred. At every turn, in every court where a judge asked Trump's lawyers ( or his minions lawyers ) 'are you claiming fraud?', they answered in the negative.

    Now then, The only thing different now is that Trump has attempted to color those normal anomalies as 'democrats stealing the election', and thus he has damaged America by diminishing confidence in the elections, the most damaging thing a president can do, because our elections is the heart and soul of our democracy. This is the biggest lie ever told in the history of political disingenuousness. No president in history ever did that, but Trump did, and this is why he must be prosecuted, and note that he will be prosecuted. Trump will set the world record for being the first president to be impeached twice, and indicted post - presidency. There is a grand jury forming in Fulton county in GA, right now, and that is just scratching the surface this criminal's legal woes.
     
  3. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nothing in that very long response provides any reason why a top to bottom investigation should not be conducted. Not to change the election results, but verify that it is free from fraud and to insure future elections are as free from fraud as possible.

    I fail to understand the objections.
     
  4. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, I'd like to know this too. OK LEFT, where is your magical answer? it sounds like you guys just want to spew a bunch of SELECTIVE information
     
  5. jhil2020

    jhil2020 Well-Known Member

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    First of all, at random, you have a better chance of asking someone who Q is and getting an inaccurate answer than an accurate one. So if your unsubstabtiated proportion 3mil/350mil (1/120 people) is correct, then about 1 out of 100 people publicly report that they even know what Q is, and they probably have no idea that our government contracts psy-op firms to push these theories into salience. And I don't even extrapolate the public opinion findings as confidently as you.

    I almost married a woman from Navanti Group and I promise you Q is a false right-wing avatar being used to qualify a lot of government expansion on behalf of citizens concerned with "conspiracy theorists" and "anti-government extremists". Truth is that you are a shill and that you think one anti-left riot can eclipse billions in damages and dozens of murders.

    Again, I think you are a SHILL if you actually believe what you post because I can refute it easily using public opinion data.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The objection is the fear that Biden could be considered illegitimate if an investigation turned up enough fraud to affect election results. That is why there will never be an investigation. Government can't afford to suffer a charge of election fraud so the claims are swept under the rug. Neither party wants an investigation of the 2020 election. I assume that is obvious to everyone.

    The left says that their purpose in the mass ballot mailings was to make it easier for minorities to vote. Actually ease of voting has nothing at all to do with race so it is nonsense. My opinion is that they actually did it to achieve the results they sought.
     
  7. peacelate

    peacelate Banned

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    Oh yea, what places had more votes than registered voters. Guarantee you won't provide one county where that happened.
     
  8. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Trump was government. What absurdity.
     
  9. Montoya

    Montoya Banned

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    You aren't owed an answer or explanation. Zero fraud and you people are going to have to like it. Your side lost.
     
  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Guarantee you won't be able to find one where it didn't happen. THERE HAS BEEN NO INVESTIGATION.
     
  11. Montoya

    Montoya Banned

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    We don't investigate fantasy. Trump lost now cope.
     
  12. peacelate

    peacelate Banned

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    So you admit you have no proof. So where is the claim that there were more votes than voters coming from if there was no investigation?
     
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  13. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    As there are anomalies in every election, in all of those elections, correcting the anomalies were done.

    The next election, or rather, the recent election, there were new anomolies, and they have been corrected and/or are in the process of being corrected.

    What you are saying is not that they are not being corrected, is that you, personally, and others like you, personally, want a total shoring up of what has been done, or is about to be done to correct the anomalies, and the reason you want that, is because, unlike any time in previous history but for Donald Trump, ****ing suddenly you don't trust the system.

    And why is that? Hmmm? I'll tell you why: it is because Donald Trump has poisoned you, filled you full of distrust.

    And people like you wonder why people like me have contempt for Trump.

    Some things will always happen, like misplaced ballots, people not filling them out correctly, no matter how ones strives to improve them. As for the machines, they are state of the art, and those who accuse Dominion, etc., were liars and are being sued.

    Remember 'hanging chads'? Did we hear about them this election? No, because that anomaly has been corrected.

    What you are asking for is a fait accompli, in every election, and my point stands, because of that fact.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  14. peacelate

    peacelate Banned

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    2020 had more audits than the 2016 election, which means Biden is a more legitimate president than Trump. I remember Trump said he would empower a commission to investigate fraud in the 2016 election but then scrapped it. I wonder why...
     
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  15. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are making stuff up I never said that they are not being corrected. I said we should do a intensive investigation to see what we have.

    And no, I do not suddenly distrust the system. I believe that mail in voting is dangerous and said so the first time I heard about it. There are too many ways to make mistakes and to take advantage of the system. But, I believe while we are at it, we need to take a look at the whole system. All fifty states plus the other areas that have a right to vote.

    Rather than assigning motives, how about telling us all why it should not be done. We have four years to investigate it and to do it right.
     
  16. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

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    To be practical, how do you propose to do that? Recount and re-check all 154 million ballots?
     
  17. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am sure there is more that could be done, but here is a list of things I have proposed before.

    1. Check every person who voted or at least a very large sample. Check that he is a legal resident of the state on election day and legally allowed to vote.

    2. Verify that the location they claimed as a resident is actually their resident.

    3. Verify the signatures of those people on the voting rolls.

    4. Review the voting rolls and ask people on the rolls whether they voted.

    5. Check the ballots for tampering.

    6. Check the voting machines to see how easy they are to tamper and try to verify whether they were tampered with.

    7. If there is significant evidence of mistakes or fraud, do a recount.

    Like I said there are probably other items that could and should be checked. It is likely to do a 100% check on the above items, but do a truly representative survey of voters.
     
  18. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    The Democrats stole this election, one way or the other. Whether is was by fraud via the massive implementation of no-excuse absentee voting or simply hoodwinking a large swath of the body politic by not covering the scandals of Joe Biden, such as Hunter Biden, by the media, or the suppression of coverage thereof by Big Tech, this election is inarguably rigged. Also, the probability factor that the guy who has been running for president for the last 30 years somehow gets more votes than any other person before him is almost statistically zero. Democracy dies in the darkness, indeed.
     
  19. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    CT dance party. Get down!

    Fiiiiiiii-re...dum dum dum...dum dum dum...fiiiiii-re...

    Lmao. The Ohio Playas.

    Keep believing that whacked nonsense. Whatever makes you feel better.
     
  20. Xyce

    Xyce Well-Known Member

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    If by "keep believing whacked nonsense" you mean keep believing facts, then, yes, I will. It is a fact that no-excuse absentee voting went up massively in the 2020 election. It is a fact that absentee voting increases voter fraud by a factor of 50. (1) It is a fact that the mainstream press did not cover the Hunter Biden scandals, which fundamentally shifted the election in Biden's favor, according to a poll. (2) It is a fact that Big Tech interfered in this election. (3) Hell, Time magazine boasted about this, such as controlling the flow of information. (4) It is a fact that Joe Biden has been running for president for the last 30 years and never made it past the Democrat primaries, until 2020. All of these are facts.

    1. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443864204577621732936167586
    2. https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/opinion/freepress/story/2020/nov/26/cooper-biden-voters/536784/
    3. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/technology/twitter-new-york-post.html
    4. https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
     
  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's what I meant by 'shoring up.
    We've been doing mail in voting since the civil war.

    Only because Trump has poisoned his base, is all of these things an issue.

    The ways to take advantage of the system cannot be done internally to any degree where any outcome is assured, it is too decentralized, too many different systems at play.

    Where it can be manipulated, and is, is externally via voter suppression, and isn't it amusing that you seem to care less about how Republicans gerrymander districts, how they suppress the vote in numerous ways, create road blocks for poor people to vote, the hundreds of thousands of voters in poor neighborhoods purged needlessly from the voter registration rolls, see the film 'rigged'. No, you don't give a damn about that.

    We've been doing it right. YOu're only miffed because Donald Trump has poisoned your mind.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  22. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have been doing absentee voting since the civil war. Not mail in voting where unsolicited ballots are mailed out to everyone.
    The first time I heard about mail in voting, I said it was fraud and mistakes waiting to happen. Trump had nothing to d with it.
    Stop trying to assign motives and address my comments.
     
  23. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, Trump has been telling a lot of lies on that point:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...llion-unsolicited-ballots-claim-idUSKBN2622SZ
    Start trying to fact check Trump's lies and believing every damn piece of garbage he traffics in.

    There is NO evidence of 'fraud' that supports Trump's lie that 'dems are trying to steal the election'.
     
  24. Montoya

    Montoya Banned

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    Oh well get over it.
     
  25. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You really need to take the time to read what I write rather than just heading off into la la land.
     

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