Is Public Schooling Racist?

Discussion in 'Education' started by Wulfschilde, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sorry, no sale. Teaching calculations so students don't get lost and lose interest is precisely the math teacher's job. Anything else is failure.
     
  2. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I suppose it's my fault, but you're not understanding what I'm saying. There are two things happening here--teaching and looking at teaching with a racial perspective.

    I do agree that adding race into this is a real problem, and I don't like it. At the same time, where you grow up can have a huge (maybe the biggest) impact on your learning. Teachers must accept that and find approaches to overcome those differences. It has to be approached in a way that makes sense to students.

    None of what this workshop promotes has to do with lowering standards or eliminating the objectivity of math. It's really about differentiated learning--an old concept.

    When I taught writing, students from working-class families often asked why they needed to learn how to write essays. Students from upper middle class--those heading to college--didn't question why, and they applied themselves more.

    It was so much easier to teach those higher class kids. Their language skills, grasp of sentence structure and vocabulary was way above those of the lower social status. I couldn't teach them all the same thing in the same way with the same expectations for achievement. Differentiated learning--that's the standard old stuff the workshop promotes. In other words, We have to make it relevant to the world they come from.

    It's really the same in Math. Look at the question below and think about why students need to know that and how that could be presented in a way that might appeal to one who has never seen a need to know it.


    How motivated do you think the student would be to learn this? Supposing you were a teacher and truly wanted your students to learn, how would you get them motivated? What do you say when the students ask why they need to know this?
     
  3. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Indiana county In which I grew up was routinely rated the poorest or second poorest in the state. We had few upper middle class students. No one cared whether the students knew why they needed to learn the material. They were simply expected to learn it. Similarly, I don't grant students the standing to ask why they need to know something.
     
  4. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Ha! That's been a while since those days. That would change the whole topic here, so I won't go into that, but that kind of teaching would have you out looking for a new job in a matter of days.
     
  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Perhaps that is why teachers fail these days.
     
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  6. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Teachers do not have free reign to do as they please in the classroom. You would have a very different understanding if you spent time teaching.
     
  7. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    What nonsense. People of color culture havent’ had public schools? In what country? Any chance misbehavior rather than systemic racism causes more disciplnary actions? Sometimes stuff happening to blacks ISN’T because they’re black, but because the brought it on themselves or maybe they just were unlucky that particular day.
     
  8. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Perhaps, but I suspect this is an advantage for private and charter schools.
     
  9. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Up to a point. It's really the parental attitudes that have changed as far as limiting the power of teachers in the classroom. Any authority the teacher has is granted to them by the students he/she teaches.
     
  10. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    That, I suspect, is the problem.
     
  11. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  13. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Maths is racist because it requires a “right” answer
    The Antiracist educators are at it again, creating racism everywhere they go:

    [​IMG]

    Here’s a case of soft racism disguised as a righteous lecture (and a call for funding)

    Profs help push program that claims math is ‘racist’ because it requires a ‘right answer’
    Wyatt Eichholz, CampusReform

    A new program promoted by the Oregon Department of Education is designed to “dismantle” instances of “white supremacy culture in the mathematics classroom.”

    Calling all victims! (And if you aren’t one now, you will be soon.)

    “White supremacy culture infiltrates math classrooms in everyday teacher actions,” the guide states. “Coupled with the beliefs that underlie these actions, they perpetuate educational harm on Black, Latinx, and multilingual students, denying them full access to the world of mathematics.”

    From the headline, this new “maths” has all the racist underpinnings of a gloriously oppressive education — one that tells students that maths is really a “white” thing. It’s implicit in the mission statement that those with a colored complexion probably won’t be good at maths and furthermore, that they can blame white supremacists for that. It’s almost like someone was working to make it harder for black mathematicans to believe in themselves, and white mathematicians too. For starters, it has people thinking about their skin color and not the numbers. . . .
     
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  14. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    This handout has been discussed in other threads on the same topic.

    First of all, it's a handout for a workshop. Those workshops are for Continuing Ed credits related to maintaining licensure. There is no requirement that any teachers take any specific workshop--you choose the ones you want, and there are tons of them. Additionally, there is no requirement or even expectation that teachers would have to use any of the information presented in the workshop.

    Second, the linked article is yet another example of how false narratives about education are being pushed on the public. It starts with the graphic that says "2+2=5." This is not what the workshop promotes, but is a deliberate (I believe) triggering device to make people think this approach to teaching Math means you don't need to find the right answer. Totally not true.

    There is a stress on the idea that finding the right answer shouldn't be the sole focus of a course in Math, but it in no way floats that idea that correct answers don't matter. Finding reasons for learning math, putting it to use in practical ways that relate to underprivileged students (who have not grown/developed inside an environment that uses/stresses advanced Math as part of family life) is why the focus is on more than just right answers. Sometimes it's hard for fifth graders to understand why they need to know algebra.

    It focuses on actually using math and knowing what to use in what situation. Naturally, that means slowing down the pace of such courses, but on the plus side, it does improve overall understanding. It also does promote finding other ways to arrive at correct answers, and encourages thinking creatively and critically about ways to do that. Sometimes it's hard for fifth graders to understand why they need to know algebra.

    And as I said in other threads, I don't like how such workshops are being "marketed" with trendy lingo related to current social conflicts, but that's a separate issue. The other side of that coin is the opposition to changing the teaching methods based on ignorance of what the real issue is. I see a deliberate attempt to push this misinformation coming from a small group of people. They obviously are way more politically motivated than anything else. If we ripped all those references to race out of this issue, I don't think too many would be complaining at all.
     
  15. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sorry, but that's just excuse-making and special pleading. The issue is wrapped up in your sentence: "There is a stress on the idea that finding the right answer shouldn't be the sole focus of a course in Math . . . " In fact, learning how to find the right answer should be the only focus of a math course.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
  16. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Rewriting Dictionaries

    UPDATE YOUR NEWSPEAK DICTIONARIES ACCORDINGLY: Everything is racist, including not being racist, as Merriam-Webster expands the definition of the word ‘color-blind.’

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I'm sorry, but there is so much more to education than a simplistic focus on rote functions. It is not excuse making or special pleading, but a lot of study in how children learn.

    Teachers like Greg Ashman (mentioned above), complaining about having to take the time to establish a basis for learning and generate some kind of interest in the process are, in my experience, teachers that really don't know how to teach. I've met that kind. They're kind of like: "you don't get what I'm teaching? you don't follow the process? It's because you're not trying hard enough...why should I try to explain it to you in some other way? I understand it, so why don't you?" And the kids are asking, "why can't you explain it so I can understand? how am I going to use this? why do I need to know this? What's this supposed to do for me?"

    I'd be one of the first to say that teaching methods often promoted by the Ed Psych folks are often idealistic and frequently unhelpful. Studies are often conducted in idealized settings and results can't be always be repeated--which is why after decades of doing away with the use of phonics in learning to read, my state is now returning to that. But insisting that all students learn math the same way and there should never be another way is unproductive in the big picture.
     
  18. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    In math class the thing is to learn math, period. The rest is Ed School BS.
     
  19. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Tell them if they don't they will fail, not get into college and end up flipping burgers.

    They need to know this in order to cook crystal meth or grow hydroponic weed.

    Actually, you can motivate a lot of different science this way.
     
  20. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Spend a year in the classroom, then get back to me on that. It all seems so simple until you actually have to deal with it.
     
  21. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    No amount of lecturing is going to trigger their interests in that way. They've heard it all a million times. If you work with those kids for a while, it becomes very clear that their experiences have given them a very different understanding of the world--one that we're not going to 're-set' simply by telling them what they 'need to know.'
     
  22. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Raised three children to successful adulthood in schools on three continents. I never said teaching is easy. But one of the hard tasks is staying focused on the main thing and not being diverted to ancillary and easier goals.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
  23. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    And your children are lucky to have had those experiences. Having also been raised in two other countries besides this one, I can say that the experience puts them at an advantage (as opposed to those who grow up in poverty) in their understanding of how the world works. To be able to see the different cultures and the different perspectives makes us pause to reflect, understanding that there is more than one world view.

    Please understand that what I'm saying is not meant to belittle you, but I do promise you that if you did spend that year in the classroom, teaching children of poverty, who almost never make it out of the neighborhood, you'd see a world-view quite different from that of your children. It's hard to convince a 15-year-old kid that holding an amount of money equal to half my yearly salary is not a worthwhile endeavor. You can point out the glaringly obvious fact that it all ends in a prison sentence, and they will nod and say that's how it works.

    In their reality, things like algebra and trig are pointless and random nonsense. The struggle is to overcome the limiting factors of their understanding of how the world works.
     
  24. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Solving those problems is not, IMHO, within the remit of a math teacher.
     

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