Hmmm, do you understand this? If I was Christian Porter, I would have wanted my name cleared and pleaded for an investigation. His reaction as well as our PM's unwillingness speaks a language, which I find repulsive and very very dangerous.... Any thoughts on that subject? Cats https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03...e-allegation-denied-christian-porter/13214832
There is a coronial investigation underway in S.A. which will examine the circumstances around and causes of the woman's death. Coroners have surprising wide powers regarding the evidence they can here and the findings they can produce. They also have the power forward requests for criminal investigations/prosecutions to Crown Prosecutors if on the balance of probabilities they believe a criminal offense may have been committed. So technically I suppose they could request that Mr Porter provide a witness statement and/or be cross examined - to the extent the Coroner wished to determine how any 'interactions' between the deceased and Mr Porter may have impacted on the victims death. It would be drawing a long bow however for the Coroner to 'deep dive' all the way back to the time of the alleged assault. More likely would be questions about more recent interactions between the Minister or anyone in his office and the deceased. Beyond that? Its hard when the victim of a crime is deceased and no formal complaint has been filed. I think there are two issues at play 1) Should there be an 'investigation' of some sort. 2) Should the minister stand down.The former I'd say yes, given the high office of the person concerned in particular. The latter on balance? At the moment I'd probably say no. This is because IMO such a step would be setting a dangerous precedent where by any citizen in similar circumstances could in effect be 'punished' via loss of pay and position merely because an allegation has been made that they committed an offense. So if Porter steps down the same thing could happen to you, me or anyone we care about. In Porter's case he'd still receive his salary as a Parliamentarian if not all his entitlements as a Minister but for the average Australian the financial impact would be devastating. In effect he would have been 'punished' before there's even been a inquiry into the allegations. So if that's unfair for us it has to be unfair for him. Finally even if there is some kind of independent inquiry into the matter the chances of any criminal prosecution are remote (unless it's for something along the lines of perjury). Too much time has passed, the (alleged) victim is deceased and apparently no formal complaint was ever made which means no formal statements were taken or evidence collected proximate to the offence. The only hope would be official records or notes and records etc left by the victim or witnesses made around the time of the events concerned. Best you could hope for IMO is an inquiry that discovered who in positions of authority knew what and more importantly when they knew it. That might provide sufficient evidence to lead to resignations and/or sackings. Beyond that?
I am all for the coronial inquest into the matter but this trial by media is just wrong. Anybody can make a claim and suddenly we send that person to prison just because there somebody claimed something happened. So many times claims are proven to be wrong or in some cases deliberately intended to destroy others over some sort of perceived injustice. AND so many times these cases are pushed under the rug because the ability to show the truth in the matters are extremely hard and those previous cases (of minority) are highlighted as doubt. Just to the point of making Porter front up and answer questions in such an inquest, he can be compelled to appear and under oath be questioned. This has become a legal matter in SA...
See: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/aust...ation/ar-BB1ejW9d?ocid=mailsignout&li=AAgfYrC People at our federal government level know what is going on, and are and were well informed, but it seems especially under the Libs (am I wrong Garry?), that a blind eye is turned when it matters. And when it really matters, a pre-existing medical condition exists. How laughable that is..... Cats
I am not sure what you’re getting at here… Because Reynolds has extended her sick leave. Are you casting dispersion on the existence of a pre-existing heart condition??? Are you casting dispersion on the cardiologist who advised the extension??? Do you consider this to be evidence of some wrong doing??? There are several questions here that have remained unanswered here. Such as just what do you expect has occurred??? Are you suggesting that in some way Reynolds stopped her from making complaint??? Just because the ALP/Greens coalition want to drag her through the mud and have to wait until she is considered healthy enough, all you have is insult. So since you asked, No, I don’t believe they were well informed at all. After all this is a criminal case and should have been past to the Police to be investigated. Should NEVER be investigated by social media as people like you would hang everybody who you do not agree with because to you that is all the evidence you need.
Hmmm, ....to old to believe in such timely coincidences..... She knows she did something wrong, and her consciousness is telling her to stay out of the weather. We are all humans and often react in similar ways. This happened to me as well.... Sometimes people just know, regardless of their political stand, reg.
You may be right, however, without evidence I would not casting dispersion on people because you want it to be so. You also have to remember that it is a heart condition she suffers and such stresses on their own could be detrimental to her. I make this point without qualification and any evidence of her condition, as I am only aware that she is being treated by a cardiologist. I will say this (Without knowledge of such) I do consider the incident with Reynolds has been handled completely ineptly. IT matters not what happened, just the fact it remained in the department. I have reservations from what has happened since this entire issue began but that is from media reports and nothing more. Regardless of those reservations, Reynolds should have reported this issue to the police for independent investigation or not regardless, AS soon as it was reported to her. These are criminal matters of the highest level and two years (roughly) later they are only now being report??? Now, we have mandatory reporting for this and that but not for suspected rape??? I would have thought THAT would be your complaint here, not the inconvenience of not being able to tar and feather a coalition member just because of the party they sit in. I think your drawing long bow with that evidence. I believe you are ignoring inconvenient information to find fault with Reynolds.
Hmmm, if she can't handle that sort of stress I wonder what will happen if the US draws us into another one and Reynolds is still our defence minister. Would you feel comfortable with this? Reg.
And that is a very reasonable question. There are couple points here. She was made privy to a very serious situation, criminal at nature and it was handled very poorly (at the very least). With what I have read in the media, timing in what was said and when should be considered when discussing how this was handled. However, it should not have taken anywhere near the timeframe for this to be reach Authorities. Then I would agree she needs to walk, especially from that portfolio. BUT there is some other considerations to be discuss, and that is the gender quota. When you simply make candidates on gender and not on ability, is that what happens??? Oh and I am posative there are many able women out there to do the job that we should not need a quote. I do wonder if she is nothing more than a seat warmer doing what is told and not what is needed, but that is another question. Anyway, The more I consider this part of the issue, I do consider that she probably should go. I do question the same as you do here. However, I believe she should walk because of how poorly she handled the rape allegation. She should have reported it immediately she became aware and allowed the Authorities to investigate. If she doesn’t walk, Morison should push her.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/wor...on/news-story/f698a92e6957800b5c3fcb728d7a81b Let us ignore the hypocrisy in this one line from the article. I have heard all day how Laming should be sacked and how the ALP/Greens think the government should not accept his vote… I am left to ask, when is this mob of politicians going to stop trying to score political points and bring down elected governments and address the issue at hand. We have complaints from MORE women coming forward about abhorrent behaviour. BUT I am left to repeat the same question stated by some others (I just cannot remember who started it) “why does it take media comment to force action?” This is a bit like the banking sector (in the lack of action I mean) that the media or royal commission has to bring all the bad together before somebody actually does something. Sure not many women complained previously, or if they did, they were ignored. I was little surprised at my personal reaction to Rudd’s comments at the press club https://kevinrudd.com/2021/03/09/speech-the-case-for-courage/ My first thought was, your still are smarting over the fact people stabbed you in the back… Instead of the fact it is clear this issue is endemic in Australian leadership and institutions that people use to ignore the disrespect and allow repugnant behaviour continue. I admit my failure in not taking the points made due to possible bias, for previous stated reasons… Laming seems to be a repugnant character (I don’t know him personally), but just as Trump, he was elected into the seat by his electorate. So it is the responsibility of the electorate to kick him. Who of the nation stands above the peoples wishes to tell them, they are not worth listening to because their elected official does not meet standards of individual partisan politicians. Isn’t about time the nation STOPS politicising these gender issues and comes together for the best of the nation AND the people no matter what gender they are???
Garry, it is not about women, never really was for the current government. The handling of the Porter rape allegation and the alleged rape of Higgins couldn't have been handled any worse. Now Scomo wants to reduce the damage already done, his support is dwindling and it shows: https://www.news.com.au/national/po...s/news-story/b5608c6ae6573c39c31570c41633d481 Time for a change, don't you think? Cats
I hate to say but it is about women. Respect for women and real equality for women. I have to agree with the handling of Higgins rape allegations, but Porters, no the media crucifixion of Porter goes well against Australia’s belief of innocent until proven guilty. I know many want to just imprison him from their own political bias, but people should be careful as often occurs that the shoe gets put on the other foot, demonstrating the hypocrisy. Morrison clearly wants to reduce the political damage, as pointed out, it is not until the media report, then there is reaction. Higgins Allegation has been going on for some time (according to the reporting) and still it is only the last few weeks that somebody actually thought to include the ONLY people to investigate such a crime the police. Oh, and my point does include the Coalition trying to politicise the issues here. I am sure the ALP are not going to come out squeaky clean. Albanese has already confronted this issue at the base of the party, not with great success either I might add. Again within 2 weeks of taking the job he already stood head and shoulders above his predecessor. Unfortunately, he still has the baggage from the unprincipled. Not sure he can overcome such. Time for a change??? Well, at the moment I don’t see an alternative. Albanese is one man and still has many people who also turned a blind eye against supporters’ conviction for domestic violence and abuse of women for political expediency. He doesn’t have decent economic credentials behind him (in the party) and still remain lacking on really addressing the gap between the rich and the poor. I still remain same at present, as just on this one subject no party is an island. Oh and yes, I AM Ignoring the Greens as they are not true to the values they demand others to live and frankly, they seem more prepared to legislate death, than life.
While I do believe the Greens (as any other party) need to develop and progress, to me it is the only logical way to work on a balanced and sustainable future. I can also see the highest potential in coming up with unpleasant questions, and possible solutions, which most certain the Liberals/Nationals don't want to deal with. Remember that Libs/Nationals stand for old traditional values, such as coal mining forever (as long as money can be made, despite the global problems resulting from fossil fuel). I think we need a rethink. I also have to say that I rather prefer a slightly leftish intellectual approach for most of our problems. Sorry for being that blunt, but intellectualism is not part of the right side of the fence, there is no critical thinking at all. Hopefully our PM gets what he deserves for the mishandling of the various (better multiple) rape/rape allegation and will take his hat at the next election. By then, Albanese will hopefully be replaced by Plibersek (imho). But we are a mainly conservative nation, so the Greens have a long way to go. But time will tell and hopefully we learn from other developed countries, where the Greens are far more accepted. Coming back to females vs males in leading roles, I do agree with you, there is no point in getting a certain sex into a certain job when the other sex is better suited or qualified. At the end of the day, we need the best people leading this country, and I cannot see that in Payne/Reynolds among some other ladies.... Reg. Cats
I have said before, sure we as people do need to progress for better future. BUT, it has to be WE as a people and not YOU as a person. Green’s preach idealistic beliefs while ignoring the reality of their own. Demanding that the lower classes pay for the ideals they dream of. The party dines on the ignorance(not intended to be insulting) of their supporters to see and accept reality of what is happening, so they can sit in Parliament on their soap box, proselytization their idealism… I cannot abide people as such. That is little rough, after all, he didn’t mishandle anything. All he did was remain ignorant of the issue. I understand you don’t like him and wish him to tossed to the side. But honestly, it is your bias that makes this a cause. While he didn’t have anything to do with the rape allegations he does stand exposed due to the fact he wanted to remain ignorant. As for Plibersek, GOD NO, I have trouble enough spelling normal names that one will cause me conniption’s. Jest aside, I actually think she is the remains of Shorten era. Her along with Wong refused to condemn the domestic violence their base supporters were found guilty of for fear of losing their seats. (I assume was the reasoning) I don’t condemn her as Shorten, but I do wonder on this issue, does she have the conviction to stand for what is right. All I will say, if ALP tosses Albanese, they will need to find somebody who has the guts to stand above the trash Shorten left of the party and bring the party with it. Funny enough, I agree About Payne And Reynolds but I am sure there are plenty of capable women out there along with men. The problem remains that there is disincentives for truly capable to take up the mantel. I am reminded of a saying my father had, “those that can, do. Those that cannot, teach.” I guess that leaves those who are incapable to govern. One of the things that gets me is in this discussion of equality, calls to bring super to equal levels. I cannot take seriously those in the ALP/Greens who voted down Abbot’s maternity leave policy that paid the equivalent of earning PLUS super. What was it, “Australia cannot afford it now”??? They have no credibility in the discussion NOW demanding those payments now. It is all about respect and not just for women. Respect should be shown to all people, the fact that Women suffer the most from disrespect is clear indication of failure of our society. That cannot be refuted with the office at the top of the nation is demonstrating that disrespect at the core.
