Extremism in USA : Increasing Problem

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by MiaBleu, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Funny how they are now fans of barriers to protect an area.
     
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  2. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    In lots of countries, guards are a permanent fixture and nobody says a thing.
     
  3. Esdraelon

    Esdraelon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are framing this issue as though one group of Americans should be forced to justify having God given rights. No thank, you. Not now, not ever.
     
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  4. Esdraelon

    Esdraelon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This isn't Venezuela or Cuba. Not yet, anyway. It would be different if there really was justification and proof of a real threat. They are keeping thousands of troops at our Capitol as though some spastic mob/role-playing idiots could pose any danger to the government.
     
  5. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would God be interested in your guns...
     
  6. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps until tRump supporters come to their senses and behave like adults....
    do you think that's possible?
    I'm guessing you wont risk holding your breath until that happens.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  7. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is gun control. The ones who are murdering those kids, (other than the police who had gotten a little out of hand), have guns illegally. The criminals will always have guns no matter how stringent the laws, and law abiding citizens do have a right to protect themselves.

    Okay, so what can be done? How about the police butting out in certain communities for a while at least, since they are not trusted and are seen as an external enemy. As long as they are there, the focus will always be on them, and the problems that plague the community will never be solved.

    State help then should be given to the law abiding citizens and community leaders - and especially the religious leaders, so they can organize temporary neighborhood police groups. At least until trust towards authority can be restored.

    The schools in the meantime, should start teaching crafts and trades so the students can start utilizing their innate talents and abilities together with the ABC's. This would ease much of the frustration some students have. Money and individualism should be deemphasized, otherwise it only encourages drug dealing and criminality.

    Basically our whole system needs an overhaul.


     
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  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A classic cycle in history playing out .. as the rich take too much - the poor rise up !
     
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  9. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We all have our political priorities. My #1 is our 2A rights. When I find a candidate that wants to protect our access to self defense and reform mental health, rest assured I'll be here promoting them. I agree that its pathetic that no such candidate exists on either side of the aisle.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  10. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Things like your idea of mental heath reform...or prison reform...or police reform...
    climate change...renewable energy...clean air and pollution control...plastic recycling...
    poverty....the priority should be the things that make everyone's life better....
    owning assault rifles is not a priority.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  11. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't know of any candidate who doesn't want to "protect our access to self defense".
    But if you find a candidate who claims his "#1 priority is our 2A rights", then
    he is either a fanatic or just lying to get elected....
    we have enough of both liars and fanatics already.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one who supports a ban on 'assault rifles' understands the value of firearms to Americans right to self defense. They claim they do, and some actually believe they do, but they dont. To compare it to something I suspect you understand better, its like when people claim to value freedom of choice and individual responsibility but then want to ban weed and abortion. Its the same sort of intellectual hypocricy.

    Can you prove that civilian ownership of 'assault rifles' doesn't make everyones lives better? No. I of course can't prove that they do either. But I can point to many things that suggest that, for example, both criminals and the government are less comfortable with a well armed society, and neither has been honestly researched to find out whether there is any objective benefit there and/or how much, because there is a lot more incentive for sociologists to demonstrate 'guns bad' than there is (if any at all) to look into the opposite.

    But regardless, my logic on the issue is very simple- there is no trouble that we can vote ourselves into that we can't fight our way back out of so long as we remain sufficiently armed to do so. A democracy is freedom for the masses, but a threat to all minority groups (ethnic, political, religious, etc). A sufficiently armed democracy provides the same freedom to the masses but also a means for all minority groups to protect themselves from democracy. Or, to put another way, the right to bear arms is the check against bad democracy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  13. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not sure your hypocrisy example is working in your favor...
    I doubt very much that the freedom of choice folks want to ban abortion...or even pot.
     
  14. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can you list here the "many things" you refer to?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  15. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Next time you talk to someone who supports banning abortion or weed, ask them if they think people should be free to make individual choices contrary to the desire and will of the collective, and whether they think people should be expected to be live responsibly or whether they think people should be coerced to live responsibly. Then you'll see.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  16. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those "who support banning abortion or weed" are usually Trump supporters like yourself....
    they will most likely agree with anything you say.
     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, typically Third World countries.
     
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe you just drove down wages too much with too many immigrants.

    If it wasn't for inflation, the picture of exactly how much prices/wages have actually changed compared to the past would be a lot clearer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  19. gabmux

    gabmux Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Isn't that what cops are for....to coerce people to live responsibly?
    Isn't that what the idea of "We Back the Badge" is all about....
     
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bahh .. that is a ridiculous assertion. it is not like there is some high demand for fruit pickers .. but I do agree we should be limiting immigration.

    It is not like there is not some small factor that one might come up with -- but a raindrop in the midst of a hurricane -
     
  21. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    some examples that suggest criminals are less comfortable in a well armed society

    a survey of more than 1,800 inmates in 10 state prisons across the nation found that 80 percent reported that burglars avoid houses when people are home because "they fear getting shot during the crime."
    Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms | Office of Justice Programs (ojp.gov)

    we can see this dynamic of criminals 'fearing getting shot' by comparing the rates of victimization by a stranger in areas where criminals know people have more guns vs areas where criminals know people have less guns; rural vs urban (and just to show that the criminals are correct: "Among adults who live in rural areas, 46% say they own a gun, compared with 28% of adults who live in the suburbs and even fewer – 19% – in urban areas" Rural and urban gun owners have different experiences, views on gun policy | Pew Research Center )

    Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Urban, Suburban, and Rural Victimization, 1993-98
    • From 1993 to 1998 the trends in violent and property crime for urban and suburban areas were similar. For both urban and suburban areas, violent and property crime trends during this period decreased at a greater rate than in rural areas.
    • The average annual 1993-98 violent crime rate in urban areas was about 74% higher than the rural rate and 37% higher than the suburban rate.
    • Urban males experienced violent victimizations at rates 64% higher than the average combined suburban and rural male rate and 47% higher than urban females.
    • Although most violent crimes in urban (60%), suburban (68%), and rural (70%) areas were committed without a weapon, firearm usage in the commission of a violent crime was higher in urban areas when compared to suburban or rural areas (12% urban versus 9% suburban and 8% rural).
    • Between 1993 and 1998, 19 in 20 suburban and rural households owned motor vehicles; however, in suburban households the theft of motor vehicles (13 per 1,000 households) was twice the rural rate (6 per 1,000 households) during this period.
    • Property crimes were generally completed at higher rates against urban households than against suburban or rural households.
    • Urban violent crime victims were more likely than suburban or rural crime victims to be victimized by a stranger (respectively, 53%, 47%, and 34% of violent crime victims).

      So, higher gun ownership rates out in the country and lower violent crimes by strangers (who would be worried about their victim maybe being armed) out in the country. This correlation is not proof of causation (there are other factors), but it is suggestive of some causation, and warrants further study that just isn't being done (because TPTB don't want to verify what they already suspect?).
    There's quite a bit less 'data' (in the US) regarding civilian firearm ownership making the government uncomfortable. But the UN summed it up pretty nicely at the Great UN Gun Debate at King's College in July of 2001 when their spokesperson made the argument: "Civilian ownership of firearms threatens the legitimate power monopoly of the state." (it should be noted that this isn't necessarily the 'official' position of the UN, but merely an argument they posited in the debate... though it seems likely to me it is also the UN's realistic position). The argument makes perfect logical sense ...except for the word 'legitimate.'

    If one doesn't believe our govt (or at least substantial elements of it) would be seeking a power monopoly, then I guess I can see why one wouldn't understand why our having means of defending ourselves would make the govt (or substantial elements of it) uncomfortable. Its seems obvious to me that the elite monied interests, at the very least, with deep tentacles into our govt would very much like to have the govt be their power monopoly. But at least I hope we can agree that anyone who is seeking a power monopoly would be made uncomfortable by those whom they seek to have power over having some means of resisting that power and thereby undermining the 'monopoly.'
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  22. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cops coerce compliance with the law. I don't think laws should be made to (en)force responsibility... do you?

    Not sure. I oppose the practice of letting lawyers and unions prioritize policy toward lawsuit mitigation over effective policing and then hanging the cops out to dry for following the (bad) policy that we all allowed to be implimented. Thats how I 'back the badge'.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  23. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Like the UK?

    And really, like the US? We have LOTS of Guards at the Capitol all the time, it's just that they don't usually have to deal with 40,000 people.

    And this is why there's such a fuss going on about delays in sending in more guards. They were there and they were ready, they just weren't deployed in time. Nothing may have happened if they had been
     
  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you want guards on-duty full time that can constantly be able to deal with 40,000 rioters, it's going to be very very expensive.

    But maybe you think money just grows on trees.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  25. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    It's not really a matter of money. We have contingents of the Capitol Police that could deal with that problem already, they just weren't deployed in time; there seems some controversy about why this didn't happen that hasn't been resolved even yet
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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