How silly would it be to get infected at this point for purely political reasons!

Deflecting as per usual again. What WE were talking about is you claimed that Trump was stopping information on Covid deaths. Do I have to keep reminding you?

Uh. OK. lol These are not studies determining that their are more Covid deaths than reported.

Quoted from your own CDC link
Estimates of excess deaths can provide information about the burden of mortality potentially related to the COVID-19 pandemic, including deaths that are directly or indirectly attributed to COVID-19. Excess deaths are defined as the difference between the observed numbers of deaths in specific time periods and expected numbers of deaths in the same time periods.

These are not studies telling you there are more Covid deaths than reported. OMG

Not to mention the that deaths reported from Respiratory diseases, Circulatory diseases, Malignant neoplasms, Alzheimer disease and dementia are all down across the board in historical numbers over the last year.

Really, you should stop. You are way way over your own head here. Its quite obvious you thought these were reports about there being more Covid deaths than reported when they are algorithms designed to help administrators prepare for an oncoming crises.

 

Of course you would think a reference to Hitler would be flattery. What was I thinking.

And you might want to go back to school on your idea of Excess death counts. You are CLEARLY out of your league. lol

 

Oh jesus you probably call yourself a liberal too don't you? LOL

 

I'm vaccinated and have never had the disease. I won't kill anybody. If I hadn't been vaccinated and had contracted the virus I still wouldn't kill anybody.

 

I've never been worried about the virus...but as evidenced by some posters on these forums alone the willingness to accept, nay, CLAMOR for any draconian measures that infringes on the individuals right to their own bodily autotomy to refuse to participate in experimental, yeah EXPERIMENTAL, therapies....THAT TERRIFIES ME! Just a short drive to the "showers" from there.

 

WTF? You were talking about the number of deaths reported by the states to the CDC. And I am showing you that reported deaths were NOT reported to the CDC, following Trump's orders. Which could be one way in which Trump could order the data altered, BTW.

Now, stop the nonsense! I provided five or six links that show that there is every indication that the number of dead were under-reported. At least three of them (if I remember correctly) were links to studies on the matter. You claimed that they were over-reported. Show similar links that demonstrate your claim. Or retract it, if you don't have any supporting references.

Go!

 

Yeah... sure... you are obviously desperate to change the subject. It won't work. Now.... Let's see the references to support YOUR claim that the number of dead was undercounted, that are at least at the same level as the ones I provided to show they were overcounted.

Stop trying to wiggle out of your claim, and either support it or retract. Your choice. If you do neither, that would be an admission that you have no idea what you were saying, and was just repeating extremist right-wingnut media lies almost verbatim.

 

In the latter, how would you avoid it? I mean, of course you wouldn't intentionally go out and try to infect somebody. But I'm talking about possible negligence.

Let's put it this way, given that this is not about you, but about the nation. If somebody refuses to get vaccinated and follow CDC guidelines, how would they avoid any possibility of infecting somebody who might die (or somebody you infected infecting somebody else who might die). Consider the fact that you can infect others even if you are asymptomatic. Which is, BTW, the most likely way the virus spread in this country in the first place: asymptomatic, or mildly symptomatic

 

I have never had Covid and I am vaccinated. What else do you think I should do?

It can happen and, obviously, has happened. The same thing has occurred with other forms of flu but with less contagion and lower numbers. There is no such think as a risk free life. We can work to reduce risk but we can never eliminate it. You put safety over freedom. I put freedom over safety. We just disagree. We always do.

 

You say that because you consider yourself to be the only intelligent being in the world. If you don't approve, it is just wrong.

Talk about unjustified ego.

 

Sop when it drops again, that is also proof that it is increasing, as is anything to support your beliefs.

 

I have to admit, its fun catching you falsifying your own post and information you claim is researched. The only research you do is what you hear from the media. But I digress, lets see what BS we have today.

1. You have NOTHING but your OPINION that Trump ordered the number of dead covered up. NOTHING, Just another fake post you can't defend.

What a croc of garbage and you have nothing to back that up but your hurt feelings.

2. WRONG, you got caught falsifying information AGAIN, and now you are back peddling acting like you never read my post catching you. Nice try but no banana.

YOU STATED

3. Uh. OK. lol These are not studies determining that their are more Covid deaths than reported or evidence of deaths being undercounted.

Quoted from your own CDC link
Estimates of excess deaths can provide information about the burden of mortality potentially related to the COVID-19 pandemic, including deaths that are directly or indirectly attributed to COVID-19. Excess deaths are defined as the difference between the observed numbers of deaths in specific time periods and expected numbers of deaths in the same time periods.

These are not studies telling you there are more Covid deaths than reported. OMG

Not to mention the that deaths reported from Respiratory diseases, Circulatory diseases, Malignant neoplasms, Alzheimer disease and dementia are all down across the board in historical numbers over the last year. And I already provided you that link from the CDC website. Some of them as low as 1/5th the number of the lowest recorded on record which means, Since they have the same attributes as Covid, it stands to reason that these patients were misdiagnosed as Covid.

Really, you should stop. You are way way over your own head here. Its quite obvious you thought these were reports about there being more Covid deaths than reported when they are algorithms designed to help administrators prepare for an oncoming crises.

 

I said I was referring to the latter case. I'm asking about this remark you made:

I'm not talking about "risk". I'm talking about negligence. There is no "freedom" to put the life of others at risk. It just doesn't exist. You have a right to do anything that only affects YOU. But your rights end where the rights of others begin.

 

Stop right there!

I provided evidence, including studies, that the number of dead were undercounted. You claim they were overcounted.

Show evidence that is, at a minimum, at the same level as mine that your claim is true. After that, you can comment whatever you want. But you made the first claim.

I provided studies
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.31.20184036v3
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0246772#sec004

Analysis...
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/25...s-greatest-in-pro-trump-areas-analysis-shows/

And expert opinion...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...-bluntly-coronavirus-deaths-are-undercounted/

Stop evading, and show your supporting evidence that is, at a minimum, at a similar level!

 

Still trying to prove a point with links to studies you have no clue about? Why am I not surprised.

Your so called studies are estimates of excess deaths and are calculated in a variety of ways, and will vary depending on the methodology and assumptions about how many deaths are expected to occur. THESE ARE NOT EXCESS DEATH NUMBERS.

Estimates of excess deaths presented by the CDC (and every other link you provided) were calculated using Farrington surveillance algorithms.
A range of values for the number of excess deaths calculated as the difference between the observed count and one of two thresholds (either the average expected count or the upper bound of the 95% prediction interval), by week and jurisdiction.

The only reasons you would classify my response as evading would be, you have no clue what excess death counts are, or you are just trying to save face for being embarrassed so badly. So now you can move on to some other person you think you can baffle with BS.

 

Yes. Obviously nobody is counting the exact number of how many the Trump administration did not report. You seem to believe that this is of any relevance, so... there you have it.

Now, stop delaying, and show YOUR studies. The ones that support your claim that the number of dead has been overcounted.

If you don't we will all have to conclude that you just repeated Trump and right wingnut media talking points with no basis whatsoever. Therefore your credibility, henceforth, would be very damaged. And my claim would be the only one standing.

 

First you claimed that Trump was ordering the CDC to fake Covid death numbers.
You got caught and have no ability to back that up. So what did you post next?

You were the one who claimed Trump ordered the CDC to hide numbers. Not me. So on with more of this sillyness

Then you claimed your studies were showing Covid deaths were undercounted.
You got caught and embarrassed for not knowing what those studies were so now you want to change the subject again?
So you can either admit you were wrong about what those studies actually are, or just verify you actually never read them right here or Therefore your credibility, henceforth, would be very damaged.

I never offered such. You demanded it as refuting your fake study provision. I never made that claim. YOU DID.

But to appease you I did provide with the FACTS (by the CDC) that all those other reparatory illnesses with the same Covid attributes were down to 1/5 of the lowest in recorded history. Since we know this isn't possible, most people with any common sense would conclude those were in favor of Covid death claims.

 

Uh uh uh uh! .... You claimed that the number of dead were undercounted. Before anything else you need to either show evidence which is at least at the level I showed, or retract. No shame in retracting. But there is quite a bit of shame on trying to evade by changing the subject.

After that you can change the subject to your heart's content....

BTW, I also need you to retract from this

... given that I just gave you two.

 

You're a waste of time dude. You need to find people closer to your own intellectual rank.
So go give yourself that coveted self proclaiming win you adore so much and waste someone else's time.

 

Ok. So you made a claim you can't support. And I claimed the opposite which I DID support with scientific studies, analysis and expert opinions.

That makes me happy....

 

No, you provided gibberish as per usual and when you got caught faking what you thought a study provided, (as provided to you by me as to what those studies really are, quoted by the CDC) you still continue to make the same claim over and over.

When you learn how to debate on an adult level, instead of the continued wordsmithing you are so famous for, give me a heads up and try again.
Until then, you should go bask in your self proclamations as that is what you have a reputation for and the only reason you are here in the first place.

 

Quote: Where is this study about the dead being undercounted

For your info, to this date, FOUR State's Department of Health & Human Services have already published their 2020 death counts, two actual, and two provisional, for example;

Michigan........

2020........Number of Covid19 deaths; 12,384

Note; COVID–19 deaths are those deaths coded as ICD–10 U07.1 or U07.2 as an underlying or related cause of death.

https://www.mdch.state.mi.us/osr/Provisional/MontlyDxCounts.asp

AND as of Dec 31st, 2020, Worldometers show; Michigan at 13,041 cumulative Covid19 deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Thus, let's be honest; Compared to Michigan's Provisional and Updated Number of Covid19 Deaths, which hasn't changed since their mid Feb Report, the number of overcounted Covid19 deaths; 657

HOWEVER, Michigan's HHS differential of 657 deaths divided by Worldometer's 13,041 cumulative deaths, equates to an overcounted differential of 5%. In other words, NOT the 20%, 40%, and even 60% overcounted percentages Trump's supporters have suspected/estimated/anticipated.

In addition, Michigan's DHH provisional weekly reports have also shown an excess number of deaths from other causes, and their 2020 provisional death count numbers will become Actual next month, thus, after Alaska, and North Dakota, the third State to publish actual death counts. In other words, nationallly, early next year, and provisional.

Excess means; Number of deaths in excess of (2019 total death counts + an average annual growth rate.

LAST, I've been posting a number of State's HHS Provisional and Actual death counts on a regular basis.

 

In addition to the above, and due to the fact that CDC's excess death count estimates have been mistrusted, I will not post their numbers, however, I certainly hope that the State's HHS 2020 death counts I've been posting, will not be mistrusted/conspiracized.

 

True. There is a freedom to live my life as normally as I can within the law. Others have the same rights I do. Their rights don't negate mine. Sorry.

 

So your claim is that the right of others to live is fine, so long as it doesn't prove to be an inconvenience for you. Got it!