The Downfall of the GOP

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Giftedone, Apr 12, 2021.

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What was the downfall of the GOP

  1. Goldwater was right - The Religious right taking over the party led to this downfall.

    14 vote(s)
    60.9%
  2. Voters today are far less intelligent

    2 vote(s)
    8.7%
  3. Other !?

    7 vote(s)
    30.4%
  1. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Although I think Goldwater was right, I don't look at the Republican Party as being in a downfall that isn't recoverable. I also put the present blame for the loss of Republican Party affiliation on Trump and not the religious. I think the total election results from Nov 2020 shows and proves this. Presidential, yes Biden won by 7 plus million votes, 51.3% to 46.9% for Trump. But down ballot, there was quite a lot of ticket splitters who voted for Biden, against Trump, then Republican against the Democrats. Thus the Republicans gained 14 house seats, 2 state legislatures and a governorship. If 2020 had been a midterm instead of a presidential election, the GOP would be crowing about the positive election results instead of sulking and claiming election fraud. If there was election fraud, one would expect that would also effect the down ballot races which apparently it did not.

    No, 2020 was purely an anti-Trump election and not an endorsement or rejection of either party's ideals, agenda etc. Certainly no mandate for the Democrats. If there was a mandate, the Democrats would have picked up quite a lot of house seats, state legislatures and governorship's.

    Now if Gallup is to be believed, party affiliation for the Republican party has dropped from 30% on election day 2020 to 25% today. But the Democratic Party affiliation has risen but a single point from 31% to 32%. Those who left the GOP haven't become Democrats, but independents which rose from 38% to 41% Nov to today. I suspect their voting habits haven't changed except for being against Trump.

    One last thing, 2020 was the first election since 1892 where a party's presidential candidate won the popular vote via to winning the presidency and lost house seats. Something that has occurred only twice in our entire history. 1892 and 2020. Certainly verifying no mandate for the Democrats, only an anti-Trump election.
    2020 election percentages of the vote for Trump, 46.9%. Percentage of the votes for Republican senate candidates, 50.6% and percentage of the vote for Republican congressional candidates, 48.1%. Percentage of the vote for Republican governor candidates, 52.4%. Note that all down ballot Republican candidates did much better than Trump. Myself was one of the ticket splitters, voting for Biden, then Republican for senate and congress. There were quite a lot of folks like me who did the same.
     
  2. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    While Barry Goldwater was in the Senate and running for president there were a bunch of people who wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire yet these SAME PEOPLE extol him as some kind of paragon of conservative thought.
     
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  3. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    From another perspective, the Democrat party having abandoned American standards, is in a collective downfall with their cities afire and teeming with crime, while the Republican party is simply divided on how best to deal with Democrat initiated blight springing from their ivory towers.
     
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  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Obviously, I'm not saying that actual religion has to do with Trump approval. Trump is clearly not religious, and very likely an atheist. I'm talking about religious mindset. The frame of mind that led some to follow David Koresh or Jim Jones... except now it's applied to a politician. It's similar to the mindset that leads many (again, not necessarily referring to anybody in this forum) to follow Trump. An unconditional following based on the doctrine that "The Leader" cannot err.
     
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  5. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obviously you are not saying anything that makes any sense. I don't know of any religious person who follows him based on religion.

    If it was religious mindset, why doesn't the religious left also follow him? Religion has nothing to do with it.

    The reason for following him is very simple. We do not like what is happening in Washington. It was hope that an outsider could change it. The democrats just helped along the process by nominating Hilary.

    I cannot speak for all conservatives. I did not vote for him in 2016. I didn't like the man and still don't like him as a person. But, I dislike the democrats even more. Biden has offered nothing as an improvement. The biggest and most apparent is the southern border. As bad as it was, Biden made it much worse with no improvement in sight.

    Now we have China thinking about invading Taiwan. There is no good answer for that, but I am convinced that Biden will make it worse.
     
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  6. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    It appears you’re splitting hairs here. Trump had the highest support from evangelical Christians than any President that preceded him.

    Our culture war began in response to the Carter presidency and is tied explicitly to the Moral Majority. It’s root is religion.

    The line (religion/culture) may have blurred during the GOP descent into hair-on-fire culture warriors but that’s all the dying Party is now.
     
  7. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mostly because they are republicans. Not because they are religious.
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The violent extremists are a different beast and we should not conflate the two. The vast majority on the RR are non violent.

    Nor should we conflate the religious right with Christianity or the teachings of Jesus (as you suggest) - as there are plenty of Christians (including the majority of Dems) who do not believe as these folks.

    You are absolutely right about dogmatism - I call this dogmatism a religious political bandwagon - as most of the folks don't even know why it is that they support what they are supporting other than "Pastor John said so" or "God said so" - according to Pastor Johns interpretation.

    "Papal Infallibility" - Always like to bring up the Papacy who viewed cats to be agents of the devil - inspiring a spat of cat torture and killing across the land.
     
  9. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    No one has got it right yet. The supposed downfall of the GOP began with the tacit acceptance of the neoconservatives and their unwillingness to stand on any real principle whatever save being the lackey of who ever paid them most. Add to that a complete willingness to compete upon the battle field of ideas with the far left let alone the culture wars. The deathknell began with the corruption of the university by leftist ideologues and eventually the surrendering of the entire education structure to those same ideologues.
     
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    [/QUOTE]
    There is a difference between "religion" and "religious mindset". A religious mindset is what allows some people to experience faith. Religion refers to specific beliefs. A religious mindset is fine, if used to adopt a certain religion. Dogmatism, faith, ... i.e., belief in something (whatever that is) of something not seen. Those are necessary in a religion. But they should have no place in politics.

    Religion has nothing to do with following Trump. But a religious mindset does. Again: different things.
     
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  11. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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    "Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the **** crow, thou shalt deny me thrice" matthew 26:34

    the religious right, were all in with trump in both of his elections. i'm not going to look up the quotes from every televangelist with a megachurch, but they all said something similar to dobson.

    Evangelical James Dobson Calls Donald Trump 'Born Again, Baby Christian' (gospelherald.com)

    the religious left, if such a thing exists outside the mainstream protestant churches and the liberation theology wing of catholicism, had more reason to remain skeptical.

    without the support of the evangelicals, no republican could be elected dogcatcher.
     
  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Utter BS. A man who does not speak of and practice his religion in public doesn't have a religion he has hobby of which he is at best mildly ashamed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  13. Rampart

    Rampart Banned

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    "my kingdom is not of this world." john 18:36

    " But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly." matthew 6:6
     
  14. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I will make it as brief and concise as I know how.

    BS
     
  15. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Go ye therefore into all nation baptizing them in the name of the Father Son and the Holy Spirit Mathew 28.

    Son of man when you see them that do evil be as a watchmen unto them warning them of approaching danger... Ezekial 11:32.
     
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  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree that it is recoverable from a political perspective - this is facilitated by the fact that Blue is just so horrible though .. not because Red is any good.

    Agree somewhat on Trump being a downfall from a political perspective - but also a wake up call - and also more of a symptom of the problem than the problem itself.

    The Red Platform - what exists of it is generally horrible .. Anti Abortion, Anti Gay, one of the latest head scratchers "anti Secularism"

    So what does "Anti Secularism" mean if not what it means = "Pro Theocracy"

    What is the Red platform other than this Sans a few other hot button issues such as immigration. I will answer "Platitudes" "Jobs -Free Markets- Capitalism - small gov't - less Gov't spending" and so on - feel good phrases for the most part.

    Red is philosophically dead - Red is "anti" Republicanism .. just as Blue is "anti" Classical Liberalism.
     
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  17. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    "DEMOCRATS SUCK!
    VOTE REPUBLICAN!"

    That is the modern GOP in a nutshell and explains why it is becoming an irrelevant political entity.

    Republican politicians seldom support any policy that might actually deliver a substantial enduring tangible benefit to ordinary Americans who still bother to vote.
     
  18. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The leaders of both parties are very repulsive, elections now involve choosing the lesser weevil.

     
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  19. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Anti secularism is anti slavery to pleasure.
     
  20. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the thinking Left used to know that MSM = FAKE NEWS.
    A lot of politically expedient amnesia has infected the "left" recently.
     
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  21. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Most Christians would oppose a theocracy with at least as much vigor as the left.
    In fact, I suspect that most of the Muslims in Islamics states would oppose theocracy if that was an option.
     
  22. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    And as I recall Samuel warned them about kings, but did they listen? ;-)
     
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  23. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not just that, they've become a party that bases their platform on beliefs not founded in fact. The list is too long to write and well known.
     
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  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Man this is so far off base it's hard to know where to begin. Republicanism is based upon all those so-called platitudes and in fact it is debatable as to whether or not republicanism can actually exist without those so-called platitudes.

    What makes blue horrible is that they no longer even pretend to care about Republicanism. In fact they continue too move in the exact opposite direction, toward ever more centralization of power.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No it isn't - Secularism is simply the "legitimate authority" of Gov't coming from a place other than "Divine Right" / "God".
     
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