Worker Shortage Crisis Deepening

Huh? Are you just going to go around and around just shooting strawman arguments? YOU were the one who brought up cost of living. Not me!. I'm only talking about raising the minimum wage to a living wage. That most definitely raises the standard of living for anybody under the poverty line.

And salaries go up appropriately.

So? Try to make a point, please. Who care less if there is a 10% bottom of wages, so long as that 10% earn a living wage!

You guys on the right have never been any good at math... or, for that matter... at the real world.

 

You are the one that went from cost of living to standard of living. I cannot be blamed if you cannot keep the two straight.

And the cost of goods will go up with them. Thus nothing really changes, they make more but everything cost more. If you make twice as much but everything cost twice as much, you have gained nothing.

That 10% is the people in poverty that you are so worried about. They will always be there.

You live in a fantasy world where there is no connection between wages paid by a company and price they charge for their goods/services.

That is an odd thing for someone that claims to own a business.

 

A nurse makes $22/hour in your area? Holy smokes!!!

 

That is the average starting wage.

 

That is insane. I worked in HR for a spell and the RNs we recruited started around $34. That was at least 20-25 years ago.

 

Looks like you are having problem grasping very basic concepts. Notice I say "looks like". Because I'm sure you understood but are now playing "disingenuous" game. I don't know exactly WHY... But your continuous strawman arguments and attempts at changing the subject are obvious.

So I'll just state my point. One which you have not ... not only not rebutted... but you have been trying to avoid

In a developed nation like ours, everybody who works a full time job should enjoy an adequate living standard without having to work two or more jobs. So the minimum federal wage should be established based on that.

The cost of goods goes up without them also. But wages don't. That needs to stop because all we are accomplishing is creating more poverty.

Nothing changes unless we change it! There appears to be a serious push to change it. Maybe it's real, maybe it's just apparent. We'll see. But your above statement is the perfect illustration of the reactionary mindset.

That "logic" would imply that if people made half as much, everything would cost half as much. Such a simplistic statement can only be made out of absolute ignorance. It implies that you believe that poor people are the ones who set the pace of what things cost. Absolute nonsense!

Are you even paying attention? They will NOT be in poverty if they make an adequate living wage.

Your responses are weird. And I'm trying to understand what it is you don't understand. Maybe you don't understand what "poverty" means. It means that people don't make enough to cover their basic needs: housing, clothing, food, etc...

You live in a fantasy world in which the price of goods is determined by how much minimum wage workers make.

Your position is not odd for somebody who has no clue how businesses work. But it is odd for somebody who is capable of using the most basic logic.

 

As has already been pointed out, raising the minimum wage does not just effect those making minimum wage, wages across the board have to be adjusted up as well

 

Some people are so devoted to their socialist ideology that no absolutely predictable consequence can change their their mind. No matter how many empty store shelves you show them, no matter how long the lines are to get to those empty shelves ... socialism is perfect.

 

And yet you claim to own and run a business yet basic economics evades you. Based upon your proposal and what you currently claim to pay ("The person I pay the least right now almost triples the minimum wage.") your staff, you would then increase their salary appropriately 65% more than their current wage? And I suspect you are not planning on increasing the cost of what ever widget you sell?

 

The jobs report will be out today from the BLS.

ADP reported yesterday that U.S. companies added 978,000 new private jobs. If BLS is anywhere close to this it would seem the April number was something of an outlier and not a trend.

 

Great! That means they'll be able to pay for the extra cost of their Big Mac now that they have to pay the guy flipping the burgers a fair living wage.

 

However, if we show stagnation in the unemployment numbers, it should be imperative that we end the federal enhanced benefits IMMEDIATELY.

 

The guy flipping the burgers will be in the same boat as his cost of living will have gone up to match his new salary.

 

We should have ended them last month, that is for sure.

 

Netting both the employee and his employer zero benefit. Employers are taking upon themselves to increase wages right now, and it isn't working. https://thehill.com/policy/finance/...-wages-in-scramble-to-hire-scarce-workers-fed

 

And your willing to pay $12 for a big mac that is worth no more than $6?

 

Which means that basic economics is not enough to create, grow and run a successful small business. You need ADVANCED economics. So please pay attention and try to keep up!

Your mindset is typical right wing. It translates thus: minimum wages go up 65%, everybody's salary goes up 65%, costs go up 65%, prices go up 65%. Forget about "basic" or "advanced' economics. That borders on childish nonsense!

It relies on the linear one-dimensional thinking that is so frequent on the right. The real world is four dimensional! Too complex for the mindset you express here... .but I'll try.

If the minimum wage were to increase 65%, my client base expands. People who couldn't buy my services before can now afford them. So this might warrant an increase in personnel and an increase in salary. There is nothing "magical" about my rates going up. They have always gone up to cover for inflation. I do have to buy stuff to eat in the supermarket. Minimum wage or not! But if I am competent in managing my business (and I am), I will take advantage of my increased client base to make my business grow. This linear thinking you call "basic economics" would put you out of business in less than a year.

You see... even if you had some concepts of basic economics (though I haven't seen indications that you do), the real world is too complex for the "basic". So I hope you're not thinking of starting a business. You would likely just blow all your savings in your attempt.

 

However, when you violate the laws of basic economics, it's kind of moronic to jump to advanced economics. Nice non-sequitur, however.

Your ad hom's are duly. You literally made a blanket statement that if the minimum wage goes up, that "And salaries go up appropriately.". That's a broad statement and your claim is that the minimum wage should increase by 65%. What is the "appropriate" percentage for all other salaries to go up?

And yet, you claim to understand basic economics and speak in four dimensional economic outlook, yet you totally ignore all the attributes of inflation of increase labor cost and increased product cost that EVERY company will need to exorb. Every industry will need to increase their prices to handle all these variables. This is what seems to evade you!

Yes, for the short period you may have a new cash of clients. However you are under this delusional guise that the inflation won't eventually place your goods and service once again out of financial reach of those you inflated the salaries initially. Everything you purchases to do your business will increase along with all your labor. Your price will need to increase which another decade down the road, we will have this same GD conversation that we once again need to increase the minimum wage.

You pay your people well above the minimum wage... that is great. That makes me assume you are getting good employees that are productive and benefit your business. Why are you not hiring that 40+ your old flipping burgers at Wendy's and paying them that wage? Is it maybe they aren't qualified? Maybe they show a pattern of not holding a job? Maybe the have an extended criminal background? You don't hire them because they won't benefit your specific business.

 

It wasn't about pleasure but all to do with comprehension

 

He won't care because he'll finally have a salary that will allow him to pay for all the needs of somebody living with a basic living standard.

Listen... I know exactly what you are trying to argue. And I was hoping you would express it better so I could tell you why you're wrong. Another poster in this thread beat you to it. But what you have been trying to argue is obvious (though you haven't stated it). You are making the huge mistake of viewing business economics like a one-dimensional linear system.

Basically, in your mind (again, you haven't said it, but it's obvious from what you write) if you, for example, increase the federal minimum wage 100%, prices will go up 100%. Maybe not exactly that, but somewhere along those lines.

The real world is much much more complex than that. First, the large majority of businesses, by far... do NOT depend on people who make minimum wage. And I'm including small businesses. Even those that have employees on minimum wage. If the majority of a business expense is in minimum wage workers, that business is in serious trouble right there. Increase on FMW or not. Second, there is nothing better for a business than increase in demand. People under the poverty line do not increase demand (except of the most basic needs). So increase in minimum wage enlarges the client base. Third... the concept you are struggling to express in this discussion is "inflation". There is always inflation. And an increase in minimum wage is likely to cause some more inflation. But it's NOT a linear one to one relation. For every employee you see now making $7.25 (or around that amount), there are many who make double or triple that. If you double the $7.25, there is no reason to double the salary of somebody making $20. You might increase it a bit if you want to incentivize them. But the whole idea is to reduce income inequality.

 

Sure is working here in Florida. Lots of people here who were looking for work are very happy.

 

I pay $6 now for a Big Mac that is worth less than $1. That's how capitalism works.

I know you don't like capitalism.. but after having lived in a communist country... you can have it! I'll take capitalism any day.

 

This is where your view falls apart. You have already agreed that if the minimum wage goes up, that it will impact more than just the minimum wage people ,but those above them as well. You cannot just take the minimum wage folks into account. there will be a ripple effect rising the pay up the chain

 

That's an assumption. Y'all are 'glass-is-half-empty' and make assumptions on the negative.

What really is happening is that

U.S. economy grew at 6.4 percent annual rate in first quarter as consumer spending drives robust recovery

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/u-s-economy-grew-6-4-percent-annual-rate-first-n1265835

Naturally, with that kind of demand for labor, SUDDENLY, there are going to be shortages of labor.

In other words, Biden is succeeding, and all the more reason to be easy on immigration, we need more, not less, immigration ( legal of course)

 

Republicans are such 'glass-is-half-emtpy' pessimists. No, that is not what is going on .....


What really is happening is that

U.S. economy grew at 6.4 percent annual rate in first quarter as consumer spending drives robust recovery

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/u-s-economy-grew-6-4-percent-annual-rate-first-n1265835

Naturally, with that kind of demand for labor, SUDDENLY, there are going to be shortages of labor.

In other words, Biden is succeeding, and all the more reason to be easy on immigration, we need more, not less, immigration ( legal of course)

Will benefits of the CARES Act be a disincentive for people to work Yeah, businesses are whining about it, but that doesn't prove squat, it's just whining. People out of work know that the benefits are temporary, and would be foolish to turn down work, if offered, noting that no one is getting all that much, really, but the marketplace ought to think of paying livable wages, that will help.

No, what is really happening is the surge in the economy, like pulling on a slinky, is stretching the economic labor force to beyond it's limit to fill the demand for work, simple economics. Really. But the complainers will continue to complain