The heat wave in western USA and Canada, Global Warming or negation of Global Dimming Effect?

That is NOT what the peiople who study climate say.

They point out that the warming Earth makes anomalies more likely. Weather anomalies don't cover the US at the same time.

Actually, my own view is that what we see as an anomaly is likley to be more a matter of what is gradually becoming the new normal. that is, what is "normal" is changing. Heat domes such as in the PNW could become more common there - less considered an anomaly.

I don't know what was "normal weather" for any region during the time of the dinosaurs. That is, we find a lot of dino bones in certain regions of the USA. Maybe they liked the weather they got.

The problem we face now is more one of change. Regions of the world became populated based on agricultural success, proximity to travel by water, etc., etc. When those factors change, it means there are huge numbers of people who face changes in factors that they use to survive. And, those impacts are not the same for all areas. Projections seem to indicate that the PNW will be OK for a long time. For Arizona, one must wonder where they are going to find the water to keep Phoenix running. For Bangladesh, it means trying to escape the country due to agricultural problems - so India continues to build huge walls against starving Bangalis. For India, Pakistan and other regions, one wonders what's going to happen when a BILLION people get hungry.

The US DoD considers the warming we are experiencing as a national security threat.

 

Well, the population has been rapidly increasing, so they are likely not going to have enough water.

Immigration is more responsible for this than climate change.

 

That might be true, but it seems to me that you could just as easily blame colder weather events on global warming, as much as you can blame rare unusually hot weather events, going under that logic.

What I mean is the "heat" in the unusual weather event has no connection to the global warming, like most people would assume. Rather the connection would be between global warming and all sorts of different unusual weather events.

 

Arizona is seeing decreasing water supply. Snow pack sources are evaporating, for example. Also, greater heat means greater evaporation rate for rivers, lakes, agricultural storage and for slowing the refilling of aquifers. Consider AZ's agriculutural industry, for one example. Phoenix is one of the fastest warming cities in the US, causing greater need for water.

This can not be blamed on population change.

 

What justification do you have for deciding that climate science should just be discarded off hand like that?

 

Since the excessive heat runs from Arizona/California up to Alaska, and along our part of the Pacific ring of fire, could it be coming from inside the earth?

Other than the volcanic fields along the West coast, there are thousands of volcanoes in the Pacific waters along the shore. Has anyone noticed a rise in temperature in the waters of the Pacific along N. America?

The only other thing that arouses my curiosity, is if the earth has tilted further down on its axis? Even a slight amount would cause the sun to be stronger in the summer, and weaker in the winter in the northern hemisphere, and the opposite in the southern hemisphere.

I say this because people have noticed that the sun is not rising in the same place as it did before.

 

I gave a link to a two hour documentary over here that takes the basic idea behind a carbon tax back several decades before Mr. Al Gore's professor gave him the idea around 1965.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/why-big-oil-conquered-the-world.581777/

Why Big Oil conquered the world


https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2007/oct/12/climatechange1

 

The west coast is not the only place that is warming. Measuring what is happening in one location is not good enough in terms of understanding Earth's warming, though it is interesting from the point of view of how much Earth's warming is changing average weather in some specific region.

The west coast is not experiencing volcanic eruptions. The last eruption was Mt. St. Helens, 40 years ago. There are numerous volcanoes that are considered active, but that just means that they have a possibility of erupting over the next very long period.

Warming from inside the Earth, Earth's core, isn't changing NEARLY enough to account for what we see. And, the issue is change.

Scientists HAVE measured warming of the oceans around the world, not just the north eastern portion of the Pacific. Climate change IS warming the oceans, and that is a big problem in several ways - like decreases in food species, lower ability to absorb CO2, more melting of ice (thus allowing glaciers to move to the sea faster and changing the reflectivity of sea that was once covered by ice), etc.

Tilting Earth would only change what portions of Earth spend slightly more time directly facing the sun. It would not change the amount of heat that Earth gets from the sun.

 

As you point out, Gore is not a scientist. He's also not an economist.

We have some amount of carbon taxes today. What we don't really have is a notion of broad ranging carbon tax that addresses some consistent factor that is found in our economy.

 

What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with discarding climate science.
Maybe you misunderstand climate science.

 

In each of your posts, you specifically ignore what the world community of climate scientists are agreeing on - replacing it with ideas that scientists do not agree with.

There ARE areas of disagreement, but you are not restricting your comments to those areas - you are ignoring what has achieved broad consensus.

It's hard to discuss this subject when I just don't see any level of acceptance of what has been measured and determined.

So, I'm wondering what it is that you base your ideas on - what level of checking you do before making one of your statements.

As I remember, you may be interested in becoming a teacher. What would you tell your students concerning how they might research their ideas?

 

Here is a good article on the heat waves.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/07/no_author/the-truth-about-heat-waves/
The Truth About Heat Waves
By Jim Steele
Watts Up With That?

July 13, 2021

 

But, that didh't answer the central issue.

As your well known abject anti-science denier points out, heat IS moving around.

But, that does NOT answer the important questions concerning the CHANGE.

Why are the patterns of heat movement changing?

What science points to is that the Earth IS warming. The northern and southern latitudes are warming. The oceans are all warming, the major land masses are warming.

All that change has to have a driving force. And, that driving force is the increased temperature of Earth.

 

I think you are misinterpreting exactly what those scientists are saying.

Or maybe it is because the popular news articles you are reading are being a little misleading about how they present what those scientists are saying.

Or maybe you have simply misinterpreted exactly what I was trying to say.


It's easy for the public to IMAGINE that a hot weather event must be because things are globally getting hotter. But that is NOT really what these climate scientists are actually claiming.
They are saying that things globally getting a little warmer will result in changing weather patterns, that could result in both more hot days AND cold days.

That's a little harder for the ignorant public to understand, and wouldn't drum up enough enthusiasm.
So media just presents the theory in a misleading way instead, but makes it "easier" for people to understand, even if the details of what they are understanding are not entirely exactly true.

 

Yes, a warming Earth does not imply that all regions will warm equally, and that in fact some region might even cool. For example, if a warming Earth were to stop or slow the Atlantic current that brings warmth to the US north Atlantic, that region could possibly cool.

But that doesn't give the public or you a right to ignore what science is saying about what actually did happen or is happening in a particular region or at a particular time.

Above you said:

That is you deciding it's valid to ignore science and come up with ones own version of what happened.

Then, you suggest that those who ARE listening to science are "imagining" something. And, I'd suggest that what the media is reporting may or may not be a problem, but it is off topic, as the point is what science is saying, not what media are reporting.

 

Your opinion isn't based on logic.

 

I disagree.

 

That has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I think you are still not understanding.

We are talking about isolated weather events now, not overall averages over long lengths of time.

Um, no...
I'm not "ignoring science" here. I'm just discussing a specific effect of what these scientists are claiming.

Yes, that's not all of it, but it would be over 90% of the explanation for these hot days.
Are you disagreeing with that?
Are you somehow claiming that higher overall averages are responsible for an immensely hot weather event in a region that is normally cool? I'm not sure that really actually makes logical sense.

Go back and make sure you're fully acquainted with the context of this discussion we are having before responding to this post.

All I'm saying is that global warming of 1 degree is not the cause of a hot weather event that is 20 degrees above normal, at least not except in the way that I previously described.

I don't see how you could be possibly disagreeing with that. I can only assume you must not really be paying close attention or really grasping what I have been writing.

 

Climatologists state that the warming Earth makes such events more likley and more severe. That's what they have said about the heat dome in the PNW that caused temperatures higer than ever recorded in history.

And, once again your are ignoring what climate scientists are saying about this event and making up your own view which is clearly NOT based on what climatologists are saying.

If you look into what science is saying, you find results such as this:
https://www.climate.gov/news-featur...d-breaking-june-2021-heatwave-impacts-us-west

It's titled "Record-breaking June 2021 heatwave impacts the U.S. West"

This article discusses the recent west coast heat and continuing severe drought events and concludes with:

 

Well gee it is unsurprising that the MEDIA and a few warmist/alarmist scientists make stupid statements about the heatwave claiming it was caused by ... he he.... ha ha.... global warming.

Rational people understood that it was a convergence of THREE weather events that made it happen.

Both articles are from Dr. Mass blog, PHD Meteorologist.

It was predicted days before it began:

The Greatest Heat Wave In Northwest History?

===

It was shown that Weather events was the cause of the heatwave:

Was Global Warming The Cause of the Great Northwest Heatwave? Science Says No.

 

Yes, the particular weather event could be predicted some period in advance as is the case for weather events. And, your meterologist does a good job of describing the particulars of this event.

Climate scientists do not say this specific event was "caused" by global warming.

What they DO say is that the warming of Earth that is taking place makes these events more frequent and more likely to be severe.

If you look at the charts in the link I posted a couple https://www.climate.gov/news-featur...d-breaking-june-2021-heatwave-impacts-us-west) it's clear that high temperatures and dry conditions are increasing in frequence and severity throught a large section of America.

I see nothing from your meterologist that describes the contribution of global warming - which isn't a weather event.

 

The Meteorologist made a good case on WHY climate change/global warming doesn't cause these WEATHER events.

I posted a couple weeks ago that 3/4 of America by area has a precipitation rate on the INCREASE, only in parts of the West isn't since 1970.

No there were even worse droughts in the West than today in several other decades since 1900. it was worse in the 1970's to the point that Snoqualmie reservoir in Washington state was 99.99% empty, just a tiny creek running down the middle of a once large reservoir.

Quoting this misleading and dishonest statement:

Has little to do with climate! It was rare WEATHER conjunction of three patterns, it was a weather extreme, a week long phenomenon, Climate is considered to be at least a 30 year average.

 

You are still insisting on believing ONE meterologist who totally ignores climatology - presumably because his credentials are in meterology.

He made NO argument whatsoever on why climate change is not a factor in the changes taking place in America and around the wrold.

The quote you would like to ignore is backed by the data shown in that article.

No single event is ever going to be traced to climate change as the sole cause of that event. That's just not the way it works. So, you and your meterologist can reduce the number of times that gets spammed..

What climatologists the world over are stating is that a warming Earth makes these anomalies more probable/frequent and more extreme.

 

It is clear you didn't read his 5 separate posts on this, he showed that it was WEATHER events that caused it and there are many Meteorologists who says similar since they are the ones who forecasted it before it happened,

Weather is always short term, climate is stated as a 30 year period.

I didn't argue the data in your misleading article, I was stating the obvious that it was THREE weather events combining in the region producing the heatwave.

From Wikipedia

This is 101 stuff, how come you didn't know that?

 

You are not reading my posts.

I can't help you if you refuse to read about climate AND you refuse to read my posts.

Sorry dude -