Why the Second Amendment needs to be amended or abolished

And what it should mean for gun ownership, possession, and availability

by moi

The problem we face is that guns are too easily accessible to people with mental health issues that are often impossible to screen for, at least without violating other civil liberties. Because of the Second Amendment and how it is interpreted today, legislatures and authorities are simply unable to keep firearms out of the wrong hands.

To help illustrate the problem, imagine if there were no driving test in order to get a license and anyone of sufficient age could drive regardless of visual or other impairments. Imagine that the only way to lose your driving "rights" would be to get into a serious enough accident or get caught breaking a serious traffic law. The roads would be less safe, and there would be no real upshot other than honoring an arbitrarily defined right as opposed to a privilege.

It happens time and time again that someone with homicidal or suicidal tendencies legally obtains one or more firearms and proceeds to act out her or (most often) his desire, usually with success due to how hard it is to detect and prevent a shooter before the shooting begins. There is no legal, and most importantly no Constitutional way, due to the Second Amendment is interpreted, to prevent such people from obtaining these weapons, and it is not feasible to check everyone's psychiatric history, especially if they have no real history to speak of.

Contrast this with how gun ownership is handled in other countries where it is legal, but with much higher hurdles to overcome. There are separate licenses granted in Germany, for example, where there is one to possess a gun and another to use or carry a loaded gun (such as for hunting).

We as a culture do not seem to have sufficient respect for guns as a danger to human life despite all of the gun violence we suffer from. Guns are given this special revered status in our culture as a way to oppose oppression, defend ourselves, even protect others, but the problem they pose in the wrong hands just seems to be ignored in favor of the preceding notions, as though they take precedence. I see this as justifying a poor practice on our part rather than admit we have a problem and try to fix it.

There is not a conspiracy to disarm Americans in order to establish some dictatorship. There are just people like me who would like to see the violence reduced by enacting appropriate restrictions on access to firearms, because every news story that comes out about innocent people, often very young people and children, dying by gun violence for no good reason at all and in a way that would be preventable without the Second Amendment is simply heart-rending. It does not get much worse for me than the repeated school shootings and the subsequent need to turn schools into locked-down secure facilities in hopes of keeping shooters at bay, with children being taught how to hide in case a mass murderer does appear the way I as a kid remember doing for tornado warnings.

It would be better for everyone if gun enthusiasts could have what they want without the ongoing bloodbath that accompanies this today, and police especially would be safer and better off as well, and this in turn might lead to fewer police shootings since they would have less to worry about from suspects.

So, in closing, I want to say again that we do not need the Second Amendment as it is interpreted today in order to have guns for shooting and hunting, or even for home and self defense. We can have our guns and protect the innocent, too, but it will require reworking the idea of gun ownership as well as carrying loaded guns as a right. This is a time to put ideology aside and be practical as a nation, as a society interested in our own security and that of our fellows.

 

No thanks. The second amendment is why we keep the rest of our rights. As best we can.

 

In the cities where crime is exploding it isn’t because of guns but the lack of will to keep repeat offenders in jail.

 

I totally agree with you, the problem is how do we convince those who are part of the same crazy train that is railroading America?

 

Another canned answer.

So, what solution do you suggest then?

 

You mean actual fact as stated in the founding papers.

 

Quit letting repeat offenders out on the street. For instance here, threatening someone with a gun is a $500 bail. In and out.

 

Solution to what? Criminals committing crimes? That’s another thread topic.

Easy solution? Ban Democrat voters from owning guns. Gun crime drops 99% overnight.

 

Why are you such a cynic?

 

Well, there's no reasoning with people who won't listen to reason. Maybe they will be more ready to negotiate if they lose enough elections?

 

I’m a realist. If Chicago gun bans really worked (they don’t), gun crime would be next to nothing.

Most gun crimes are committed by people who elect blue leaders. It’s not cynicism. It’s empirical evidence. In other words, FACT.

 

Good, you have IDed the problem, now instead of punishing the law abiding, fix the damn problem and leave the lawful out of your 'solution'

 

People who ignore statistics aren’t using reason.

 

Civilian firearm ownership undermines the legitimate power monopoly of the state.

This is the UN's stance on gun control, so don't try to fly that crap about 'no agenda to disarm America.' One of the most powerful institutions on the planet wants to disarm America, and it also believes power monopolies can be legitimate (that's no different than 'might makes right' in my view).

If we don't have a right to bear arms, bearing arms will be criminalized. The trend over the last century is for wealth to consolidate into fewer and fewer hands. The innevitable conclusion to that trend is mass slavery. The only roadblock to that trend is that armed humans dont make very useful slaves.

I won't be giving up my rights.

As to your assertion about guns causing violence: the evidence to that end is circumstancial and cherry-picked. It ignores the fact that criminals seek victims who are less likely to be armed, it ignores cultural dynamics in crime and its in liu of any meanigful studies into the true inhibiting factors that armed citizens play in crime deterence.

 

Most gun crimes are committed by Democrat voters in Democrat districts. Maybe start there before violating the rights of 99.999% of gun owners.

 

Rising crime. Democrats only answer is gun control. That avoids the real problem.

 

What I suggest is no more of a "punishment" than current laws regulating use of motor vehicles or the gun laws in other western countries. I want a serious discussion, not silly knee-jerk reactions based on a failure even to read all of what I posted.

 

And here we go with nonsense right off the bat about big gubmint and a reiteration of the straw man argument trying to "disarm America." Read what I posted if you're going to respond, because I've addressed this and I'm not looking for more of the usual talking-point nonsense. I want solutions.

 

I would respond "you need it to be abolished period!" It is going to be real tough for American Marxists to redefine America if you don't! Good luck.

You may con some Americans in to wearing a mask as told but this one will be a major undertaking!

 

i fear that some fools really believe such silliness.

 

So another elitist implies "his is the voice of reason. Wear your mask and shut up!

 

Whereas I suppose this ^ and:

are what you deem to be reason? You're calling me an elitist and accusing me of attempting to con people. I'm seeking a solution to very real problem that too many Americans are ignoring.

 

No it’s not. Totally asinine to think such.

 

I don't claim to be the voice of reason as you do. I just want to see the "individual liberty" survive the collectivists! In Cuba they first took the guns then gave a bullet to the head of large landowners. The con has been going on since before I was born. As of more recent, it has become very intense.

 

No it's not. The 1st amendment goes first, as with Face Book and Social Media......then they come and try to take our guns which is why we have the 2nd.