Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Noone, Aug 16, 2021.

  1. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    The "END" that's happening in Afghanistan today began the day we entered. Twenty years of wasted men and money were never going to change centuries of wasted men and money. We never had a reason to be there, we never had a clear mission why we were there, while we were there. The reality is we went there on an ambiguous mission of revenge, that put us in the position of staying forever or leaving with the outcome that is happing today. We trained and equipped the Afghans to take care of themselves and THEY, very predictably, chose not to, no amount of money, training and time was going to change that.

    The American people have wanted out of Afghanistan since the day we went there, President Biden has listened to Americans and pulled us out; something Donald Judas tRump should have done, President Obama should have done and something Dubya should have never put us in a position to need to do. For ALL the chaos, terror and mayhem that is going on right now, terrible as it is, IMHO, it is still less than what would have taken place, cumulatively, over the last 20 years if the Taliban had been left in control of that country; or, most likely what would have taken place had we never gone there. The fact is, with the exception of short interludes when fools like US whent there thinking they could change things, the War Lords of Afghanistan have always ruled with an iron fist and murderous terror.

    So, for those of you that think this is the key to putting Benedict Donald back in the White House, it's not. Americans won't give a **** about Afghanistan or what happened there a month from now, especially with their kids, father's and mother's back at the dinner table and thanking God and President Biden they are there ... alive.
     
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  2. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    This should be a teachable moment: We should learn that you cannot force our values and democracy on foreign nations by using military force. Change in those countries has to come from within. Any outside force is going to be seen as illegitimate, and, thus, not worthy of support. That's why we are seeing the implosion of the Afghan "government". It was just barely propped up by US troop support, keeping it from collapsing. Once that troop support stopped, the illegitimate "government" collapsed immediately. If Afghans want change, and there are many that do, it has to come from within, not imposed by other countries that are seen as occupiers.

    Will we learn that lesson? I'd say no. Clearly, GWB hadn't learned from the Vietnam debacle, and in his hubris thought that Afghanistan would be different. Well, it wasn't. In the future, our troops should be relegated to doing what their actual purpose is: Defend the homeland. They shouldn't be used for foreign policy adventures that help president's election chances in the short term, but are terrible for the country in the long term. It would be a lot cheaper too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
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  3. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    It's hard enough to change oneself. It's impossible to change anybody else.
     
  4. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Let alone countries 1000s of miles across the globe, of which we know nothing, except 20 s soundbites from MSM every once in a while.
     
  5. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Right. Who died and appointed us the police of the world? We have enough stuff to clean up in our own neighborhood.
     
  6. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Broadly agree.

    I would perhaps amend that to "police chief". Your allies dutifully follow you in every time as well.
     
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  7. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Joe... the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" called. They just said... "Thanks". China was on the party line laughing.
     
  8. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    For the folks who suggest that this wasn't our fight. It does seem awfully convenient not to have to worry about the threats around the world. I suspect that this is a comfort these folks feel because they haven't ever been thrown into a real conflict, or know why folks out there want to destroy our light. The next series of attacks on our allies, our interests, and our nation have been set in motion with this disastrous mishandling of Afghanistan by the Biden folks. Cut, run, leave a mess. Sounds just like a BML rally. Of course democrats are partying down as the Afghani people die.
     
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  9. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Before we jump to the conclusion that the lesson to be learned from the failure of the Afghan Government is for America to bring ALL of our troops home and beccome a fortress nation there is an equally likely lesson to consider. What's happening in Afghanistan can be an example of the chaos that could overcome the world if we abandon our mission of keeping peace. Several years ago I read a paper that explored a world were after War 2 we retreated and became an Island Nation. It was a long article and I only remember the message, Susinctly, it's highly likely it would be a Mad Max world if we had done that. And at a cost to U.S. much greater than we have paid by being out there.

    After the war the United States alone was untouched and we needed to step up and enforce peace. Yes, now that most nations have recovered it's time for them to help out and share the burden. But only a FREE America governed by the people can lead the way.
     
  10. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    That's horseshit, IF we stayed another 20 years or 200, the outcome would be the same; the quick colapse of the Afghan's proves that. I heard a talking head today expounding that it would have only take 3000 troops to have held Afghanistan, I doubt that, but for how long and how many of them would have died? We should have never been there and it was the right decision to leave.
     
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  11. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Well, cause you said so. It doesn't change or otherwise diminish the weight of my comment. Democrats are stupid. We shouldn't listen to them either. And as we see, as Joe cuts and runs, the people of Afghanistan will endure their terror. But you feelz better. Gosh, the tradeoff.
     
  12. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Your bias is palpable. That you can't put partisan hatred aside and see the bigger picture is the symptom of the disese that is destroying U.S., not President Biden but lack of American UNITY. :sad:
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
  13. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    The amazing thing about Afghanistan is that there is absolutely nothing in common with Vietnam; not politics, not terrain, not population, not religion, not economics. Only the result is the same.
     
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  14. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    The duopoly brought us this.
     
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  15. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Not even the result. Vietnam has become a prosporus nation, that has been good for all Vietnamese. The Afghan War Lords will ensure that Afghanistan remains the **** hole it's always been.
     
  16. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Seeing the crazy nuts over in Afghanistan sitting around the Presidential Palace in Afghanistan this morning reminds me of what Trump’s mob were doing at the Capitol earlier this year. We trained, supported, armed and supported the now deposed Afghani government for 20 years and at the first sign of danger THEY CUT AND RAN. It was idiotic to go there in the first place and pretty stupid to stay for 20 years. Now it’s time to get out.
     
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  17. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol. Aphganistan has way bigger problems than q’anon shaman posing for pictures but it’s nice to see trump still lives rent free in your head
    Don’t forget to charge him!
     
  18. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think Bush could have avoided going into Afghanistan, once Al Qaeda was traced to there. Bush had to respond to the 9/11 attack. Al Qaeda were the perpetuators and admitted it. We went into Afghanistan to get Al Qaeda. The Taliban defended them. However, by the time sizable U.S. and NATO forces arrived, the Taliban had already been substantially defeated by our special operations and CIA people working with the the Northern Alliance (a collection of anti-Taliban war lords) and U.S. air support. Bush allowed the war to evolve into a nation-building exercise, rather than leaving. Why? I suspect two reasons: 1) fear of both the Taliban and Al Qaeda returning if we got out and 2) NATO. NATO forces reduced the cost of our presence, plus could be pointed to, by the Bush administration, as traditional allies working together, when they were refusing to take part in the Iraq War (with a couple of exceptions, primarily the UK). IOW, paradoxically, the decision for NATO to support us in Afghanistan may have encouraged us to stay and staying meant "nation-building."
     
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  19. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    RCA tells us the cause is democrats actively trying to fragment our unity. This isn't hyper partisanship, these are simply facts. Choose to ignore these facts at your peril. So, yes, Biden, et al, are actually destroying the nation. And as he does this, the world around us can't figure out if they can trust democrats any more than any other authoritarian model.
     
  20. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    As they say in court, fact, not in evidence. And not "all" Vietnam prospers. That is an incredible lie. Just as the Vietnamese war lords bent over their nation, the afghan taliban intends the same. Let us hope that in the vacuum Biden created that millions don't have to die like they did in Vietnam or the rest of Indo-china did after 1975.
     
  21. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Your lens is truly broken. If you want a comparison, this is what BLM did to this nation last summer. Democrats just sat around though, there was no where else for them to cut and run to.
     
  22. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    :roll:
     
  23. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Keep dreaming. One-Term Joe screwed up and they know it.
     
  24. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm worried that when it's the time for the USA homeland to protect its citizens when our turn comes, our military will fold up just as easily as the Afghan government.
     
  25. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Why? Because of our Military Industrial Complex we have the World's best equiped and MOST experienced Military and Military Leadership in the world. AND, if a conflict erupts it's not likely to start on American soil. There is no chance OUR Military is going to do anything but out perform any "battlefield" opponent; hands down.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021

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