Afghanistan in Transition with US Departure.

I'm proud of our troops for giving 20 years to help stabilize the area. I just hope all of us remember that and don't blame them for this. They've done the best they could.

We need them to come home.

I'm also sad for all the Afghani people that we have to leave there. It's heartbreaking no matter how you slice it.

 

The US army are to blame for things like these:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-idUSKBN1W80MI

The amount of civilian casualties are staggering. That Bagram airport the US army previously left, was a place like Gitmo but much larger, where Afghans were tortured by the 1000's. That too is what the US stands for. I'm not for the idea to forget about that when it hurts white American feels in order to never mind they massacred civilians and tortured 1000's who were brown. (Yes. I am playing that card. So?)


As for your I'm sad for all the Afghani... that part that you do not seem to get. The Taliban, a cluster of multiple armed groups,... ARE the Afghans! The people the US lured to do their bidding are just people who previously were Afghani war lords or ex-Taliban. But they all Afghani.

 

There are still some 1000's around the airport, and took it over to ensure all kinds of departures.

 

Crowds scale airport walls, cling to planes as Afghans, West scramble to flee Taliban takeover

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...=857693951420692326&utm_medium=Email Sailthru

Chaotic is an understatement..

 

Both of you just did.

 

Oh I wouldn't go that far. It seems that this is the way to summarize it all, but why are we thinking this? I got the idea that we've been fed a lie about the "bumbling" efficiency of the Taliban, the hype around the glorious American Army and how well policies are wroking.

Donald placed the seed of a full departure from Afghanistan. So what happens now would otherwise have happened under Donald as well. Maybe not this chaotic, but non the less... he would have pulled out and the Taliban would have still won.

Good for them.

 

At least unfortunately 20 years invest of blood for nothing! This hurts the veterans ... and not only the Americans, don't forget those of your allies.
There were per May last year 3,502 coalition soldiers killed ... of them are 2,355 US soldiers.
And not only the killed count... think for example about a veteran who lost both legs due to an IED in Helmand or elsewhere in Afghanistan. Whatdo you think how such a person feels now ...

 

I think it was a mistake to pull out completely. We should have maintained few airbases and quick reaction teams there to make sure the locals have things under control. Now every radial terrorist will be drawn there and out threat to US will begin to increase.

This might be what most Americans wanted, but IMO it was a mistake. Trump negotiated the pullout and sold it to US public, but Biden made the final call. He could have decided to stay.

We trained the locals for 20 years, and they are good at what they do, but we trained them to rely on airpower, and artillery like US troops do. Without it, they couldn't hold the country for a month. Or maybe they just gave up seeing us leave.

 

Pff... Think about your average Afghan family who did not asked to be first ran over by the US army, shooting it's way through the country,... FOR 20 YEARS, to then see them flee and the Taliban violently taking over like before.


Some people just want to run their farm or bakery, you know. They don't give a damn who is in charge. It's utterly irrelevant. And all they got is 20 years of bullets flying around their head. Them people would spit in the face of a legless US soldier because he was the reason they had to burry their family members and could not live a normal life 20 years straight.

 

I am not there so all I can do is try to piece this together from pieces here and there. Of course, I do not like for our soldiers to kill their civilians but people make mistakes. That's not an excuse or justification.

What I was trying to get across is all the collective frustration, anger, guilt, whatever negative emotions that have arisen from these withdrawal efforts is NOT a reflection on the individual men and women that went there with the best of intentions. Yes, the road to hell (if it existed) is paved with "good intentions" but these are our men and women who sacrificed seeing their children grow up, their spouses, their parents, their friends for years at a time and sometimes more than once.

I'm not an all-or-nothing thinker. I never said our soldiers were infallible. In fact, I've been saying the exact opposite. If we haven't been able to help in any substantial and *permanent* way, we have no choice but to bring them home. How many people on all sides have to continue to die for this? Right, wrong or indifferent, none of us can change the past. ALL we can do is not forget and learn from these mistakes so it never happens again.

If you've ever read anything I've ever posted here and have come to the conclusion that I have an issue with you speaking out about racism and culturism, you haven't been paying attention. I'll be more than happy to send you a list of EVERY site on the internet where I post and my stance has always been the same - against discrimination, period. Full stop.

So, bring it on. But, I can tell you this before we take this road, these people don't give a damn. You do. I do. Some others do but we're talking about people that have posted for almost 20 months now as if half a million people dead under their choice for POTUS is "acceptable". If they don't give a damn about white Americans dying all over this country, we both know they won't give a damn about anybody with more melanin in their skin dying, here or abroad. I posted about a little baby girl, 6 years old, being gang-raped on her way to the border. She lost the ability to speak because of what she endured and that thread got NO traction.

I don't know the solution. All I can tell you is those of us that care are outnumbered. That doesn't mean we stop fighting against it. It just means that we can never allow ourselves to become so desensitized to it. I'd honestly rather be dead than not care about others. I can't even conceptualize that mindset.

Yes, you are correct. My statement was not well-worded, but the sentiment is not incorrect.

First, and foremost, I was speaking of civilian Afghani people who've been caught in the crossfires. The people we went there to try to help.

However, I also feel sorry for the Afghanis who are causing the problem. I've been through a bunch of tough stuff in my life, close to death a few times, have seen more than my fair share of the evils of the world and I still find a way to find joy every day. I make a point to be grateful for something every day I wake up. So, it's very, very hard for me to understand what kind of additional hell a person has been through to turn to that type of existence. Killers and rapists aren't born. They are CREATED.

So, I stand by my original statement. I do feel sorry for the Afghani people (and ALL the people around the world that face these hardships that most people in the US can't begin to imagine and make no effort by which to empathize). Yes, I weep for them all.

 

I'm a former cop and my father, brother and ex-FIL are all veterans. My father, sister and I were/are all Chicago cops. I know very well what happens to soldiers in war (and police officers on the streets of our country).

War is ALWAYS FOR NOTHING. Always. And anybody who thought differently hasn't been paying attention.

 

There will be plenty of investigations on how this exit strategy was implemented. There's a traitor somewhere in the mix. I'm pretty sure of it as this makes no sense. It makes sense that we would have to pull out at SOME POINT but this is not how an exit strategy is conducted.

I'm pretty upset about this. I absolutely can't stand Trump but this one isn't his fault. Thankfully, he's so useless and incompetent that he never did anything.

You called it. Biden pulled the switch and Biden will go down in history books for screwing this up.

I posted this earlier #323 from a link @MiaBleu posted.

 

The government forces must have struck a deal with the Taliban, and apparently that is nothing new in that place. I just read an article saying that was what happened last time too, when the Soviets had pulled out. Sometimes they even swap fighters, - meaning they agree to fight for the other side.

Trump would have pulled out if he had won reelection, but he didn't. Biden made the final call, so he owns it.

 

It's not a mistake that the US just went out and attempted to build themselves a nation because they simply disliked a government of a 3rd world country. The US army is the institute who did that nation building and subsequently people died by the 10,000's. Nobody asked for that, and the US and it's army are responsible for that. That's not a mistake. That's a "calculated risk". It's true that you can't change the past,... but you're the one who put up to be proud what the US accomplished. This is what they did. Your claimed they .... "helped" to "stabilize the area" in some way, is a joke. The US helped themselves and they did not stabilize a thing. The US also surveyed the country to mine it's natural resources. You should be aware of that.

I got a specific problem with people who got the nerve to complain about the feels of the US soldiers who got paid to risk their lives and do a dirty job.... while they put 10,000's of civilians dead in their graves and tortured people by the 1,000's. And indeed. That's where I toss in the race card. It fine you all hide it around the idea that people who got paid to kill and their feels matter far more then the innocent people they got killed, and race plays no roll in it. I laugh at such an argument.

Is it? Did they ask? Your random family would be mighty proud of their boy who took up a weapon and fought against a mighty foreign army.
Kind of an universal truth.

 

Yes, that makes sense. Some back door dealings is the ONLY explanation for this big a mess.

You have more confidence in Trump that I did or do. His track record is 0 on "follow through" unless there's a Big Mac involved.

 

You're angry. I get that. Here's the thing though. Our soldiers, the men and women that went there, NONE of them make the decisions. Nobody you see walking down the street in fatigues is a shot caller. The Administrations we had over the past 20 years, the Generals and Colonels and all the ones that gave the orders are to blame so you anger is misplaced. They picked up some orders and had to follow them or be dishonorably discharged. Why blame them?

You want to turn this into another "Let's crap on Vietnam vets when they get home" deal and that's not fair.

 

They joined the army out of their own free wil. It's been 20 years like this, and we had Iraq before this. So it's absolutely safe to say they knew what they were getting into when they were paid to do what you get told to do.

I'm not angry. I'm realistic. I blame them for what they have done. I don't care about your feels about not being "fair".
If it was up to you, you wouldn't blame a 20 year old Taliban veteran for what he got ordered to do / paid to do.
Thats just absurd.

 

So, you think everyone that signed up and served was just a homicidal maniac? Only independently wealthy and those who own their own businesses can decline a directive from a supervisor. I've been fired and have quit jobs for not being willing to do something I knew was not only wrong, immoral and unethical but ILLEGAL. No paycheck is worth me going to prison.

You can't tell me how to feel about this or anything else. I don't care if you think it's absurd. If you felt so strongly about this why didn't you charter a plane and go in there to pull our soldiers out? It's nice to sit on your throne and cast hatred and anger at the men and women that went and tried to do their job. You have no right to pass judgments on those that do, because, like it or not, they do it for OUR country.

 

Well, first of all, I'm starting to think they sympathize with the Taliban. Otherwise they would be fighting them.

 

Read this thread from the beginning - May 8th.
Most of us saw it coming, why not Joe?

 

Yes, this is my post from then

I think even Biden knew the Taliban would take over, but he did it anyway.

 

Completely predictable:

 

Yes, it will revert back to what it was before we went in, which is strictly enforced Sharia law, with beheadings, stonings and all other kinds of barbarism. Radicals from all over the world will pour in, and ISIS will have their Caliphate again. Few years down the line, we'll have to go back (maybe sooner).

 

Anywhere but Afghanistan:

 

As leaders and parents, we often want to shield those we care about from the cold, hard facts. I was willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt when he said that he didn't disclose how bad the virus was because he didn't want us to panic, but everything he did after that showed us the truth of what he really thought about us, us getting sick, our family and friends getting sick and dying. His actions overpowered his early words.

In that sense, I can understand *why* Biden wanted to paint a prettier picture than what he most likely knew was going to take place with this kind of hurried, mish-mash of a so-called exit but, like Trump, he too dropped the ball. There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know at this time." or "As they say, it's always darkest just before dawn." And, as I did with Trump, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Nothing about this is acceptable. I don't care if he's not Trump. Well, I'm glad that he's NOT Trump. But, that's not enough. He has to keep his promise to keep our country together and work for ALL Americans. He knew, walking in the door, he would be under the most excruciating pressure to turn the pandemic around, get people back to work, help our farmers, keep our grocery stores at least somewhat stocked, help people stay in their homes and rebuild our collective morale.

I understand he is facing insurmountable hurdles but, as President of the United States, you don't pretend they don't exist (like Trump) and you don't lie to us (as Biden did). WHY say that we would not see these terrified people literally running for their lives when he could not guarantee that?

I tell my kids this all the time. Trust takes a LONG time to build and takes SECONDS to destroy. Use your words wisely.

Trump didn't do this and we watched day after day the numbers of cases and deaths rising as he took "no responsibility at all."
Biden didn't do this and we are, again, facing a national tragedy while in the grips of a continued pandemic and wanting to bring our people home.

THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO DO THAT.

This is not what is supposed to happen.

We, the PEOPLE, are NOT supposed to let this happen.

In my entire life, I have NEVER broken a promise. You know why? Because I don't make any promises unless I KNOW I can keep them.

I'm going to break my own rule about no news and I'll listen to Biden just like I listened to Trump. Every single US soldier, our allies and innocent Afghani people that die because of his order is on his head. You don't make promises you can't keep. Period. He better have some damn good answers for this.