Afghanistan in Transition with US Departure.

I knew it. Training these people was a waste of time from the beginning.

Afghan officials, security forces reportedly started selling out to the Taliban in early 2020
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...e-taliban-in-early-2020/ar-AANn1Cg?li=BBnbfcL
Secretary of State Antony Blinken conceded Sunday that the Taliban's effective takeover of Afghanistan "happened more quickly than we anticipated."

The domino-like fall of Afghanistan's regional capitals, then the national capital, was years in the making, aided by widespread corruption, an isolated and poorly advised President Ashraf Ghani, President Biden's expeditious withdrawal of U.S. forces and contractors, and a demoralized and often unpaid security forces, political and military analysts say.

But "the spectacular collapse of Afghanistan's military that allowed Taliban fighters to walk into the Afghan capital Sunday despite 20 years of training and billions of dollars in American aid began with a series of deals brokered in rural villages" in early 2020, The Washington Post reports. The deals "were often described by Afghan officials as cease-fires, but Taliban leaders were in fact offering money in exchange for government forces to hand over their weapons," and "over the next year and a half, the meetings advanced to the district level and then rapidly on to provincial capitals, culminating in a breathtaking series of negotiated surrenders by government forces."

 

Was it really the right thing to do:

 

And, that coward fled to safety. I hope they paid him enough to stay wherever he went for the rest of his life. He will be a marked man until the day he draws his last breath. This is unconsciousable.

Russia says Afghan president fled with cars and helicopter full of cash - RIA

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...ith-cars-helicopter-full-cash-ria-2021-08-16/

 

I think I recall the U.S. forces and perhaps many other Allied forces tried to train Afghanistan forces to fight back and train them to have a strong defense against their enemies especially the Taliban and perhaps Al-Qaeda to name a few. We thought the Afghan forces would be ready and prepared to fight and fight back against any any enemy attacks. The U.S. and other allied forces trained the Afghans for at 20 years and have set for anything. What happened? Why couldn't the Afghans fight back against the Taliban? Why couldn't they fight back with force? What went wrong? The Taliban took Afghanistan that fast. It looked like Afghanistan didn't stand a chance against the Taliban. The Afghans had their chance and failed. I didn't realize just how stupid Afghanistan is.

 

They didn't fight, they made deals with Taliban and gave up the country.

 

Tragic:

 

‘I stand squarely behind my decision’: Biden defends Afghanistan withdrawal, concedes Taliban takeover was faster than anticipated

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...Q.rNNH6f9LiR--wDSwPXNtiruC8wgFBoAWI9GHJHrTQJU


It is what it is...and once the emotional photos of Afghans trying to escape subside..........how relevant will Afghanistan be to the US??

 

Yep. He owned it, and while its painful to watch, he was right in saying we should not fight for people who won't fight for themselves. It turns out they started making deals with the Taliban as soon as they heard about the "deal" over a year ago.

 

exactly!! No one can motivate the Afghans to develop the courage to defend themselves and their own nation. They had twenty years to learn how to do that.........from some of the best in the world.

But there will be plenty of criticism fling around now....... and of course the blame game is already in full force.

If we promised them "security"........that was a mistake.. We should have been encouraging them to secure themselves.

Because of the obvious factors we have seen........ this was not going to end well.........regardless of how long the US stayed there.

The US military did as good a job as any well appointed military could have done. There is NO WIN in this kind of situation. This was not about conquest of a nation.

 

I appreciate the service of our troops. But politicians left them there way too long and its obvious Afghanistan is a lost cause.

 

Yeah! It looks like it and they were stupid enough to do it.

 

Agreed. I can't begin to express the anger and hurt I feel over how this was handled. We've given enough of our time, people and money. If they haven't figured it out in 20 years, I'm sorry. I want our men and women home yesterday.

 

sharia law, beheadings, stonings? like Saudi Arabia, the dear friend of the americans?...
the guys of the bombing in New York were Saudis and couple Maroccans. Talibans were sympathetic to them since the times joint US-Saudi operations in Afghanistan were financing anti-soviet guerilla, but that's all, Talibans had nothing to do with the 2001 bombings. It was Ben Laden who became angry against USA because the worsening of the Palestinians life conditions and status.
2001 bombing came as a good excuse in order to go set foot in Central Asia, nearby Kazakh and Turkmen resources, and nearby Iran.
Resilience of afghans people was greatly underestimated. When some guy from Midwest is in Kaboul, he is just a foreign invader, but a taliban is a local guy on his own soil...

islamists have been used by USA directly or by proxy since ever in order to induce regime changes if needed, or try to, like in Caucasus, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yémen.
Saudi and Qatar as main providers of islamism have never been questioned.
Then the double game of Pakistan, which also is supposed to be some kind of allied.

overall it's funny: 20 years and 1000 billions blown for nothing, and still not able to win a war against anything bigger than Guatemala.

 

Worse, - like Afghanistan before we went in.

There is no winning in that place, there is only maintaining status quo.

 

And we can't get them so reliant/ dependant on the US for security etc.............that they have no motivation or incentive to start defending themselves

It is the dynamics of this situation that are important.

As is what will be learned from this experience??

.

 

Frankly, I am very surprised that nobody in the top ranks warned the shot callers about "learned helplessness". All of this should have been worked out. What's the point in our paying all these "top notch" people to advise our elected officials and something like this is allowed to just fester for 20 years? There has to be some kind of mental health professional in the mix somewhere, right?

 

Learned helplessness.. Yes!!! Brilliant assessment........... and fits with lack of incentive etc.

This is why.......when The Afghans sw the writing on the wall....... about the US presence coming to an end.......they started making deals with the Taliban........... instead of fighting for their own beliefs and desires for their nation.

Very interesting psychology indeed. The powers that be should have several fulltime psychologists as advisors so they can better understand human behavior and the various responses that come into play.

Of course the negative images coming out now from the area can be great propaganda for those that want to use them that way.


I do wonder how come there is such a major underestimation of the TAliban capability. & SPEED/ STRATEGY. It seems THAT was the strategy of the TAliban ........ all along. and no one had their finger on tha t pulse.

 

I wouldn't be surprised:

 

It's not as they did not know what they gotten themselves into. The US is full of policies of getting foreigners who trash laws about human rights, while the refuse to acknowledge the international court of justice... and whenever they go demand their soldiers are immune to such a persecution... so they can torture and massacre around. Gitmo is just 1 prison where they kept 100's of people without any kind of trial locked behind bars and torture them. Abu Griab is an other in Iraq. Bagram, where the US army had it's airport, is also known to have a massive prison where 1000's of people got tortured by the US army. They chained people to the ceiling and beat them up till they died. Nobody received a sentence longer than 1 year in prison over that. That's what the US army stands for. Let's be clear about this about what kind of justice the US army actually upholds, instead of lecturing me what kind of propaganda you heard in adds and what they said on tv.

And this is just the crap we know from prisons we are aware off. The US army also has secret prisons where it gets much worse. GWB acknowledged that the US got them. And than Poland opened up that they got on of them secret US prisons in their counry. So it's not conspiracy things going wild.

As just put up: the best chances to get away with murder is signing up to the US army where you get immunity from the law and a slap on the wrist when caught. The dude who is responsible for the My Lai massacre in Vietnam (you brought up Vietnam) only got 3 years "house" arrest. His "house" was the about the biggest military base in the US where their is virtually no reason to leave the base since they got all you want on it. Nothing changed since them days. And I add: it's probably skin color related. Oh yeah.. I am going there. https://apnews.com/article/us-military-racism-discrimination-4e840e0acc7ef07fd635a312d9375413

I have that right, and I am taking it.

 

Nonsense ...
I hardly think you'd have any pointless fights that you can never win. Why should these people do this?
What is one of the basic phrases in the US military called? We fight for those who cannot fight for themselves. So there are also people who cannot fight for themselves.
For example, think of teachers, especially women, who then also taught Afghan girls. Do you ask them to get an AK-47 too? Seriously?

 

Anyone who wishes to pin blame on the current situation in Afghanistan should, IMO, read the book American Spartan by Anne Scott Tyson which accounts the trials and tribulations of her boyfriend a special forces captain fighting in Afghanistan named Jim Gant. Gant applied some methods which were successful in Afghanistan which the American military leadership at a later time disapproved of. Gant, later, was fearful of court marshal. And, of course, Gant's successes in tribal villages throughout Afghanistan were never mimicked by the American military establishment.

 

You're aware that the US government had a policy of kidnapping native American children, to erase their culture by banning those kids to speak their native language, make them Christian and comply with the white western culture? Something they did till the 1970's. Kids got physically beaten the culture out of them. They were malnourished like hell, and death was rather a common factor under the victims.

You actually can compare the barbaric white American culture and what they did to their native cultures with how the Taliban thinks about accepting other cultural idea's. I'm not saying it's exactly pot - kettle. But you can't deny the awkward theme of both having a go to commit a cultural genocide.

 

What gives you the impression they would know what they were getting into? What are you basing that opinion on?

What do you think the military is for?

The average age of a military recruit is 21. https://work.chron.com/average-age-soldiers-join-military-25737.html

How much did YOU *really* know at 18, 19, 20, 21?

My posting history will clearly show that I am against all forms of violence, discrimination, "untouchable" authority figures and all forms of abuse (sanctioned or otherwise).

However, the problems you mention are NOT limited to the US military.

Police officers can beat up, arrest, lie about and sometimes KILL people (and NO *real) investigation is ever conducted.
Lawyers and judges can discriminate against whomever they want (and the person usually has no way to fight back).
Doctors and nurses can kill without scrutiny (until the body count gets to high).
Lenders and banks can rob whomever they want (and nobody pays attention because it usually happens to non-white people).

So, if we're going to talk about our OVERALL policy of bullying, discrimination and hypocritical policies on how the US military treated their targets in foreign countries, we need to include our overall policy of bullying, discrimination and hypocritical polices on how the US government (we, the PEOPLE), all the exact same thing every single day against OUR own people.

And, with that, the foundational belief that we think we have the right to not only butt in (where we aren't wanted) but act morally superior to others solely based on our nationality and skin color.

-----------------------
Beyond the hypocritical stance mentioned above...Killers and rapists and torturers are NOT born. They are MADE. My brother enlisted at 19 years old and served as MP in Afghanistan. He came back a changed person. I have not seem in almost 15 years and I don't know why. He has never talked about what happened there but I can imagine (because I'm a former cop). Before he shipped out, he spent almost a year being TRAINED to endure all kinds of abuse in preparation for what he was going into. At that point in time, an enlistee CAN'T just say "I'm out, dude." This is why military recruiters LIE to many of them.

I don't like Trump. I will never like Trump. However, he was my President (even though he didn't care us). The people that went to the Capitol on January 6, 2021 were acting on what they BELIEVED was "fighting for their country". Yes, Trump lied to them as Pence had no authority to overturn the votes, but that doesn't matter. They were sincerely doing what they believed was right for the country.

How is that any different than anybody who acts on what they believe is the right thing for our country?

Sure, I would love it if we could just NOT have wars. I have no clue why we have to be in everybody's business in the first place. But, if you think they are being sent to these various countries to finger paint and grow pretty flowers, you probably need a better understanding of military service.

At the end of the day, they have to follow orders and to them that "kill or be killed".

We turn our recruits into killers and then have the audacity to turn our backs on them when they come home broken. We want and need them to serve but we treat them like crap for doing what they were told to do. Anybody in any other employment can tender a resignation when the fire gets too hot. Recruits and enlisted men and women will have the US government on their tail in two seconds for going AWOL.

I agree. That's not right.

I don't watch the news and I've never seen a propaganda ad. You may have missed it but I'm a former cop. My father was in the National Guard and Army and then became a Chicago police officer. My sister is now a Chicago police officer and I have three uncles who are retired Chicago police officers and my brother served as military police in Afghanistan.

I don't need other people to tell me what to think. All of my opinions are based on my experiences or the experiences of people I actually know or knew at one time. I don't play the Monday morning quarterback role. I'm not exactly sure why people do that either. It's pointless.

I don't believe it's conspiracy things going wild. I am aware.

Addressed this point above.

Addressed this in earlier post.

Fair enough. I'm taking my right to Freedom of Speech to call you on it.

 

One more thing I just thought about. MOST civilians (unless they work for/near our military operations) don't know this but some criminal court judges will reduce or even dismiss charges if the defendant enlists in a branch of the military. So, a percentage of our enlistees have already committed some type of crime before stepping foot in the door.

I'm not saying that's okay. I'm just saying it happens.

 

No, of course not. MP7.