How to convince people to get vaccinated

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by CenterField, Sep 3, 2021.

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  1. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    You are totally bemused

    First, I understand why the CDC may have changed the term IMMUNIZATION to PROTECTION; Because, they’ve realized that at least 30% of the population are slow learners, and they will complain until they say “I get it”.

    ONCE AGAIN;

    Due to several Variants, the SARS-COV-2 Vaccine’s efficacy, and effectiveness have been reduced.

    Question; How many Variants we had since SARS-COV-2?

    Answer; Predominantly, TWO, Alpha, and Delta?

    Question; Why do you think CDC has to change the composition of its flu vaccine every year?

    Answer; Because the Flu viruses are constantly changing/mutating.

    Also, both the Flu vaccine’s efficacy and effectiveness are constantly changing
     
  2. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    Calling bullshit on these numbers. Stop it.
     
  3. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    The percentages I’ve quoted were reported by Florida’s Hospital Association, and those who questioned their numbers and percentages are IMO, mentally sick people.

    Also, Florida Health/DeSantis Department of Health have been reporting a Case Survival Rate of 98.6%, and the self-acclaimed experts on this site have been reporting a Case Survival Rate of 99%.

    Thus, I call said 99% Case Survival Rate....B.S.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021
  4. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    Lets see the link to 15% of infections require hospitalization. The fact that this doesn't even strike you as outlandish speaks volumes about your ability to perceive truth.
     
  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The key one is the fourth in your list Nobody is motivated or convinced by lies. The way government is trying to do it is exactly backward. Shaming people, trying to get people to fear or hate each other, threats, punishment and lying have the opposite effect as we can see clearly. Treat people with respect and you have a chance of getting respect in return. Behave like Biden is behaving will get him nothing but ill will. He should know better.
     
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I think you are wrong. Florida has a population that is older than any other state. Since most deaths occur among seniors you would expect the state to have a death rate above that of the rest of the country. I believe the "survival rate" is higher than 99% on a national basis. You can find that with ease given your obsession with statistics. Look beyond numbers. There is a whole new world out there for you.
     
  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Yes, "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is the best way to gain credibility with the public.
     
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  8. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    I’ve googled Florida Hospital Association Covid19 Report on a regular basis, and obviously you haven’t.

    Since August 4th, Florida Hospital Association has been reporting Daily Hospital Admissions, and you will need a total of daily admissions to figure out Florida’s Case Hospitalization Rate.

    You can’t use Current Hospitalizations because Current equates to the number of Daily Admissions MINUS number of Outpatients.

    My question to you; Do want me to change your diaper, or do you have the mental capacity to figure it out on your own?
     
  9. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Correction; You think DeSantis Florida’s Health Case Fatality Rate is Wrong

    Google; Florida Heath Covid19 Weekly Situation Report, Page 8
     
  10. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    You stated that hospitalizations as a function of infections to be 15%. Lets see your numbers, although I don't need to. I already know you don't know what you are talking about.
     
  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that. I said that Florida is not a typical state because it has an older population. One should expect an above average death rate there. Why do you criticize what I didn't say? It is a pointless activity.
     
  12. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Then, Let’s calculate the Average National Case Fatality Rate;

    Number of Confirmed Cases: 41,686,036
    Number of Coded Covid Deaths; 676,081

    CFR; 1.62%......Source Worldometer
    Florida’s Average CFR; 1.4%......below national average......Source; Florida Health

    HOWEVER, death per 1M pop;

    National; 2,043
    Florida; 2,248......above national average

    Conclusion; One can use actual numbers, and different types of methodologies. In other words, if you label my numbers/percentages as B.S., I’ll label yours as B.S., however, the question is; Who wants to start this war? You and AKS????
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021
  13. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    In several threads, I’ve reported Florida’s Delta Case Hospitalization Rate numerous times.....you’re just a late arrival.
     
  14. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    It’s a lost cause, and mainly due to a lack of intelligence.

    Next step; Mandate
     
  15. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    Never go full authoritarian. Especially when you don't have a good enough reason too.
     
  16. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    We’re way overdue for a clampdown, and hopefully, the one term Biden won’t care about the consequences.

    When I was a Republican, we believed in putting the country first, and today, it’s Me, Myself, and I.
     
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  17. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    personal liberty and freedom and all that mean nothing huh? I've never heard of force injecting people. That's a whole other level of insanity which remember...if you don't want the "other side" with that power...don't cheer for it.
     
  18. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Historically, wars have been harsh on civil liberties, and according to Trump, we are at war against an invisible enemy.

    Also, during a war, there are two conservative beliefs that contradicts each other;

    a. Freedom to Choose
    b. Individual responsibility
     
  19. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    So easy to calculate, if you’re smarter than a fifth grader;

    1. Number of cumulative hospital daily admissions

    Source; Florida Hospital Association Tweet.....choose a date from August 4th, the day Florida started reporting hospital daily admissions

    Divided by

    2. Number of cumulative daily cases

    Source; Wordometer

    = Case Hospitalization Rate
     
  20. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Howard Stern

    “When are we gonna stop putting up with the idiots in this country, and just say it’s mandatory, F.......em, F........their freedom”

    Agree!
     
  21. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    @CenterField Why not give the vaccine to the high risk individuals in other nations who want it but cannot get it instead of forcing people who either are low risk or don't want it to get it? What about people who had covid in the last eight months, why not give their vaccine to someone else who needs it?


    That's how we get more people vaccinated.

    These particular vaccines don't prevent spread, they just mask symptoms while people go spreading the virus unknowingly. So it's pointless to force people to take it if it's to stop the spread.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2021
  22. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do consider that people can easily claim religious exemptions and most employers don't want to mess with that and are granting them. Denying the religious exemptions would open a can of worms and the employers are afraid of the litigation and bad form. So they tend to sigh and accept the requests for religious exemption.

    Also the recommended opting out by getting tested once a week defeats the mandates, and testing once a week does little to keep the virus away from the workplace. Those who are really afraid of the vaccines (often due to misinformation) are much more likely to prefer to get tested once a week. It's not that inconvenient.

    Not to forget, this controversial move will outrage people so much, that they will become much more combative. Do expect much harsher protests and lawsuits (some unions are already mobilizing). Once this move was adopted, there will be no more dialogue.

    I'd still prefer gentle persuasion. Half-baked mandates with easy opt-outs and exemptions will only enrage people so that they will dig their heels even more, and will accomplish little.
    I know of a business that vaccinated 75% of employees who were willing and eager, but 25% declined. They tried to get those 25% by implementing a mandate, not even with a testing opt-out. It was either get vaccinated or get fired. Guess what? 80% of those decliners claimed a religious exemption and were granted it. The mandate only increased the number of vaccinated people by 5%.

    I think that maybe a gentle persuasion campaign, one-on-one, with a respectful approach, with the infectious diseases nurse talking in private to each of these 25% and trying to correct misinformation, might have achieved more than 5%.

    So much for that now. The 20% who are still unvaccinated are pissed off and now won't listen to anybody, since they got their religious objections.

    I'm quite sure that the overwhelming majority of them do not hold true religious beliefs that forbid them from getting the vaccine. It's not consistent with them having accepted other vaccines like Hep B and the flu shot. It's an opportunistic excuse. But that's what the mandate did: these people got even more radically against it, and now the employer doesn't even have the option of firing them since they were granted the religious exemption.

    The bottom line is, one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar.

    I think these mandates will increase slightly the number of vaccinated people but not by much and likely by a smaller percentage than other forms of gentle persuasion.

    I hear that Delta Airlines got a large number of previously hesitant employees by knocking down their health insurance premiums by $200 if they got vaccinated.

    Some governors implemented million-dollar lotteries for five winners throughout the entire state. Apparently these lotteries did little to increase the numbers. Much better would have been to divide up those 5 million dollars and give 100 bucks to each person who accepted the vaccine. I guarantee that the numbers would go up faster. For example, teenagers who feel invincible therefore don't think they need the vaccine, would gladly get those $100 to buy booze and pot, LOL.

    Anyway, I don't feel like gentler options got fully explored before these mandates came down. That's a mistake.
     
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  23. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no shortage of vaccines in the United States. Vaccines are being thrown in the garbage by the thousands for lack of takers. So, there isn't a point in giving the vaccine destined to someone who had the virus, to someone else.

    Now, it is true that we could be donating these vaccines to other countries. We did donate 105 million doses already. We could donate more. But frankly I think we need to first take care of our own including with boosters. Then we can donate more.

    It is recommended for people who had the disease already, to still get vaccinated. Immunity against re-infection with Delta is best this way. And since we have no vaccine shortage, why not?

    "These particular vaccines don't prevent spread, they just mask symptoms while people go spreading the virus unknowingly. So it's pointless to force people to take it if it's to stop the spread."

    Sorry but the above is a misconception in various levels. Yes, the vaccines do not prevent ALL spread but do prevent MOST of the spread. Do you know how many breakthrough infections have actually happened? A few weeks ago (a bit more by now) when I last counted, we had 153,000 cases of breakthrough infections. Sounds a lot, right? But that's out of 183 million people who got vaccinated. That's only 0.08%. And that already included Delta variant data. Sure, it went up a little and I haven't bothered counting again, but let's say it's now 1%. Or even 2% if you want. That means that still, 98% of people are not catching it, or at least, are catching such mild and transient cases that they are much less likely to transmit it.

    See, you need to catch the illness to start with, before you spread it to others. So if most vaccinated people don't catch it, yes, it's lowering the spread.

    When you say "they just mask symptoms" you'd have then to assume that 100% of the vaccinated people are catching the virus and not having symptoms, for the vaccines to be "just" doing that. That would be absurd. It's not happening like this.

    You may also have heard that the viral load in vaccinated people is the same as in non-vaccinated people therefore they spread it just as much. Again, you need to first catch it... but subsequent research also showed that the viral load, even if initially the same, drops very rapidly in vaccinated people in subsequent days given that their primed immune system then jump-starts new antibody production. Unvaccinated people, though, whose immune system wasn't primed, get persistently high viral load.

    The rapid drop makes the vaccinated people who caught it, infectious for a shorter period. Again, that's an advantage.

    It's not pointless. The intention is not to STOP the spread because we've always known that the vaccines are not 100% protective, but the intent is to minimize it, and also, of course, the intent is to prevent hospitalizations and death, and the vaccines are very good at that (although not 100% either).

    About "people who are low risk" - they may be low risk of dying... but death is not all in Covid-19. It's estimated that 20% of people who catch Covid-19 may come out of it alive but with permanent organ damage to hearts, lungs, pancreas, liver, brains, and the coagulation system.

    We've linked several times here to a study by the Ohio State University. They looked at their extremely healthy student athletes with no co-morbid conditions who caught mild and even asymptomatic cases of Covid-19. I mean, you can't get any lower risk than that. Teenagers/Young adults who are super-healthy athletes... Guess what? A whooping 30% of them had evidence of heart damage from the virus!!!

    So, no, even people who are at a low risk for dying, should get the vaccine.

    The funny thing is that when I say the above, for example regarding the risk for the heart of catching this virus, people say it's fear-mongering... while the same people deem the vaccine very dangerous, when serious adverse reactions only occur in 0.0000123% of vaccinated people, an extremely low number.

    So on one hand, a 30% risk of heart damage... on the other hand, a 0.0000123% risk... and the person talking about the real 30% risk is the fear-mongerer, while the person crying out loud about a very negligible risk that is zero until the fifth decimal point... is not fear-mongering?? Go figure...
     
  24. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate your response, although I disagree we should give vaccines to people who already had covid instead of giving to high risk individuals in other countries.
    I think it would be smart to treat people who had covid as equivalent to a full vaccination status and give them the booster the same as a fully vaccinated person. Biden needs to support this,even require that any vaccine requirement must be an immunization requirement instead and include naturally obtained immunity. Requiring the vaccine and ignoring people who have natural immunity comes off as political discrimination and causes further distrust. "If immunity isn't enough and they still want you to get the shot, what's really in the shot or why are they really pushing it except to exert power and authority over me.?"

    Yes a vaccinated person is not as contagious and they recover faster. They still become infected in order for the antibodies to respond and the antibodies from the vaccine target the spike protein, that causes the damage and many of the symptoms, instead of the virus itself. They can still carry the virus.
    Without symptoms, they are less likely to quarantine, are not required to were masks and don't seek tests even if they are knowingly exposed.
    I think while the person is less contagious, the procedures and general awareness negates most of that.
    An unvaccinated person would wear a mask, quarantine and get tested, allowing them to stop the spread even though they are technically more contagious.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2021
  25. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    CNBC Poll shows very little will persuade unvaccinated Americans to get Covid shots

    As I indirectly stated, a waste of time and energy.......bring out the bulldozers.
     

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