Biden won't do it, but a future U.S. president is going to have to bring U.S. generals to heel.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Dayton3, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. Condor060

    Condor060 Banned Donor

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    Yet he never started WW3. He never asked about nuking China. He never had a discussion about nuking China. And never started a war while in office.
    So another made up claim bites the dust as per usual.

    Yeah, like you would know. lol Do you always preference your so called facts with only your opinions masked as facts or do you have links to all these concerns shared by hundreds of people working in the Trump administration?
     
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  2. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Dictatorships come to mind right away. The Nazis still provide the default manual on how to run a one man government. Mind they're not the first. The idea in different forms may go back to antiquity (frex Julius Caesar) and has long been current in Latin America but Hitler remains the major model on how to acquire and run a strongman state in the modern world.
     
  3. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    General Milley's version is he did tell them when THEY called there's nothing to worry about we got this. But, never said he would warn them of an attack.

    Most of the people worried about tRump's maniacal state worked for him or were appointed by him. So there's that. :roll:
     
  4. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    He didn't start War 3 because of the gaurd rails Milley put up.
     
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  5. Condor060

    Condor060 Banned Donor

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    So you can provide a quote from Milley (or anyone else on the planet) where Trump asked him or discussed anything involving nuking China. Right?
    Or is this just another CNN leftist out of space made up claim?
     
  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thank you, General Milley!
     
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  7. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Not on this Earth.

    The Apache only has a range of 250 nautical miles, and that's only if it isn't carrying any ordnance.

    It is not capable of in-flight re-fueling.

    Both Switzerland and Austria are neutral States (and they're allowed to declare neutrality without penalty of over-throw or assassination since they are White Christian Nations) and do not permit over-flights of US military aircraft.

    Note that Apaches are not suited to operate in high mountainous terrain and and the Alps run through Switzerland and Austria.

    It's unlikely either the Czech or Slovak Republics would have permitted over-flights, but even if they did, there's no place to refuel them (their aviation fuel for combat rotary wing aircraft is not like ours.)

    Can't over-fly Serbia to get to Bosnia-Herzogovina, which is mountainous (and the reason those people readily and voluntarily converted to Islam.)

    None of that matters, because it isn't enough to just have the helicopters.

    You need the ground crews, maintenance, fuel, and ordnance, plus the people to support those, and parts. Lots of parts.

    I'll concede 4 months is way too long.

    Under combat conditions, I could have done it in 72 hours or less, but then it's the combat conditions that give me access to what I need and what I need is C-130s. They can land most anywhere in Europe.

    C-141s can land in many places, but a C-5 would be out of the question, since the only place in the Balkans you can land one would be Serbia (or Greece or Romania.)

    Note you'd be relying on the Air Farce for airlift support and if they don't have the assets in Germany, you'd have to task them from the US.
     
  8. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall anyone fawning on Trump. The left regarded his entry into politics with undisguised amusement, followed by incredulity and then terror when the alt.right seized upon him as their Great White Hope as soon as his insanity became more clearly known.

    What "fake" claims are you referring to? The only refutation of the claims that Trump was crazy were the later proofs that he in fact was crazier still. Like many people once Trump was "elected" I had hoped that he might "grow in the office" Instead he shrank, becoming even more of a clown as the functionary than he had been as the candidate.
     
  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Your joking right? Ever heard of Ramstein?
     
  10. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Why? He only managed to stay in power for 12 years
     
  11. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Then lay in a supply of Ibuprofen for 2028 to 2036 followed by President AOC in 2036 to 2044. You have a few achy years ahead but at least the government will be in good shape.
     
  12. Condor060

    Condor060 Banned Donor

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    Suuuuure you don't. Being included in dozens of Hollywood movies, being invited to Democrat and celebrity weddings, Orpha having him on over and over about running for president, hundreds of leftist talk show appearances, hundreds if not thousands of Democrats and celebrities going to Trump parties, Clintons inviting him to their daughters wedding, 40 years of reporter interviews, yet you can't remember any of it huh. Laughable

    Wow, talk about convenient memories. You have one of the most convenient memories of any poster I have ever run across when is comes to leftist fake claims.
    Trump is a planted Russian asset
    All Trump loans are cosigned by Russian Oligarchs
    Trumps computer is directly connected to Russian banks
    The cop at the capital was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher
    Then he was killed with bear spray
    Then the left claimed Trump supporters took down the American flag at the capital and raised a Trump flag
    Kavanaugh was an alcoholic high school serial rapist
    The Covington Catholic kids are all white supremist
    Melania was a paid escort
    Trump hasn't paid any taxes for 18 years
    The State Department's entire senior administrative team had resigned in protest of Trump
    Trump changed the name of Black History Month to African American History
    Trump removed the bust of MLK from the Oval office
    Illegal immigrants are drinking from toilets
    CIA official Gina Haspel, Trump's later pick for CIA Director, was in charge of a secret CIA prison
    Schiff claimed he had compromising information about Trump and the Russians
    Congress was investigating a
    Russian investment fund with ties to Trump officials
    Poland's First Lady had refused to shake Trump's hand

    And heres a list of a few hundred you can look through
    https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/06/50-media-mistakes-in-the-trump-era-the-definitive-list/

    Yet this is all news to you huh? Most call that being unaware of the obvious.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You're crazy if you think AOC will ever be elected to anything beyond what she has managed so far. She is a nut.
     
  14. Condor060

    Condor060 Banned Donor

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    Whatever you need to force feed yourself to make you feel better.
     
  15. Condor060

    Condor060 Banned Donor

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    Just an FYI, when you take someones post out of context for your personal internet wins, you aren't making your point,
    You are running from your own claim. But you know that.
    As it has become your actual signature in debate.
    Anything else you need to run from to make your point?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  16. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, civilian command of the military's operational matters is a cornerstone of all free republics.

    Milley isn't a Rosenburg, he did not give China the bomb or leak strategic details for profit. He did what he thought was right, but good intentions are not enough. He went behind his elected Commander in Chief's back and communicated operational details to a relatively hostile nation. As a man who was never elected by anyone.

    That merits a firing, in my view. Treason charges are too far.

    ______________________________________________

    In terms of the broader issue of the influence of unelected military generals on operational matters...

    I've always thought the problem is not so much the generals as the executive branch itself. It's easy to forget that the framers were extremely sceptical of standing armies, a significant number opposed the Federal government's ability to raise standing armies.

    The war hawks were only able to overcome the objections of these delegates by giving Congress the ability to raise standing armies. Congress. Not the executive branch, not the Preaident, not the JCoS. Congress, duly elected.

    Unfortunately Congress is too busy keeping quiet, delegating all of their powers to the executive so they can breeze through to an easy reelection on their incumbency advantage.

    This has resulted in a state of affairs where the people's representatives have very little control over anything, and where they do have control they go with the prevailing winds rather than principle (all but one Congressperson voted for the AUMF).

    I'm just a humble foreigner from little old Australia, but it seems to me that a complete revamp is required, going back to the War Powers Act. Return military control and responsibility to Congress. Drastically reduce the President's powers, more or less back to what it actually says he can do in Article II.

    And that's the astounding wisdom of that document, your constitution - a surprising amount of issues disappear if you actually follow the thing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  17. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    And that would be a major problem for a huge reason:

    Most members of the U.S. Congress DO NOT WANT war powers anymore. That would make them responsible for something. Forced to take and defend potentially unpopular positions.
     
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  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    True, but Dictators don't tend to stay in power long, They are usually overthrown in a few years unless they start a war and that is always a risky endeavor.

    Hitler came to power in what many regarded as the most "advanced" nation then existing in the world. One that had come out of WWI with no substantial damage to their home industries and still having a substantial surplus population. Germany was one of the first European nations to come out of the Great Depression and this was during his rule.

    Hitler was not Time Magazine's Man of the Year in 1938 for nothing. He fell victim to Fascism's dictum that the State exists for foreign conquest. If he had not started WWII, and had treated minorities equably, Germany might have long profited by his rule.

    Mind, that's Germany, not the German people. Dictatorships aren't generally very pleasant places to live, though they can be for some. A country run as one man's hobby can be powerful and even prosperous but it's sure as hell not a fun place to be.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  19. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am generally opposed to term limits, people should be able to elect the best candidate no matter how many times they've run.

    But when Congress is taking the piss to such an extent it's hard not to argue for them.

    If you limit them to two terms they'd have to get something done in 4 years. Every second election at least would be two fresh faces. And much more importantly, they would have to leave Congress and re-enter the workforce! Imagine that, they would experience the consequences of their policies!

    That should be done by constitutional amendment, and I think it would be very healing for your country for the left and right to come together over the crocodile tears of their **** representatives. Congress would be furious, it would be to be done by a convention of the states.

    _______________________________________

    More controversially, perhaps an amendment that prevents any of the branches from delegating their powers to any other. That would more or less abolish the bureaucracy overnight and re-establish a robust separation of powers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  20. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Nobody wants to just do their job anymore.
     
  21. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I'm contraindicated for Ibuprofen. I don't drink hard liquor but I might start. ;-)
     
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  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    But that is another problem. It can and does take most members of the House and Senate literally YEARS to learn how to navigate and work with the U.S. federal government bureaucracy. Term limiting members of Congress would make them even more reliant on civil service careerists and lobbyists.
     
  23. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps the proposal in the second half of my post would rectify that?
     
  24. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps but if Hitler had done that he would not have been Hitler.
     
  25. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021

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