FUSION POWER now being touted to make Green New Deal Null& Void.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 61falcon, Sep 20, 2021.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why couldn't we build more nuclear plants and why would they make temperatures go through the roof? Why would electrical energy demands multiply 1000%, where do you get that?
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    We have PLENTY of storage space, excuse the pun, here on earth it's the anti-nuke crowd that keeps fighting using it and tying it up in court with phony lawsuits.
     
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  3. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Fusion has been just around the corner my whole life, so I'm not holding my breath. If we're serious about zero carbon power source, we should lean on third and fourth generation nuclear fission.
     
  4. WhoDatPhan78

    WhoDatPhan78 Banned

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    Yea, it’s a shame that nuclear energy can be weaponized. It could have saved the planet.
     
  5. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    What do you think you would do if the cost of energy would drop by a factor of 10? Would you still turn off the light to save energy? Install LEDs? Drive the same, or drive more? The point is that it is human nature to fill out the energy envelope that it given to us. People from the middle ages would think that our current personal energy use would be unimaginable and totally frivolous. For us, it is normal. If we had nuclear fusion available, a larger per capita energy footprint would become the norm. And with it comes the heat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Hmmm not where I live, what makes it itself so unreliable or just the fires? I live where we have hurricanes. Last year was out twice, one just a couple of hours second for 7 days. It had been maybe ten years the last time. I have a generator to get me through. My brother lives on the North Shore north of NOLA he was out for about a week ten days with Irma, he even has the instant on wired to the house system. We both live in areas with above ground utilities because when the houses were built back in the 1970's 80's underground was not very around.

    It sounds like you live in the west and that may be in California where I see you have to ask permission to use a portable generator and register it with the state.


    Advisory #293
    December 3, 2019


    This advisory addresses the timing of use of portable backup generators in connection with a Public Safety Power Shutoff (PSPS) event. This advisory supplements the previously issued advisory regarding use of backup generators while power is disconnected as a result of a PSPS event.1 We recommend referring to both advisories in conjunction with the applicable regulations to understand the compliance requirements.

    • In limited circumstances as described below, portable generators may be operated during PSPS events prior to the inactivation of the distribution line servicing the generator site if necessary to alleviate threats to public health and safety.
    • Where unregistered and unpermitted portable generators are moved frequently between sites, following the submittal of a CARB Form 402 within 24 hours of commencing initial operation, an owner or operator may submit subsequent Form 40s to CARB to list the location(s) of the where the portable generator has operated, on a weekly basis.
    • Owners or operators must first check with their local air district to determine that the use of a portable generator to provide emergency back-up power is allowed at the site.
    https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/advisory293

    I think the people in my state would tell a state legislature to take a hike if they ever tried that here.

    Imagine if we could have small localize fusion generators with underground lines. Now I did listen to one transmission line engineer explaining that is not the end all and you can't bury the high voltage lines because of the heat and the insulation that would have to be used. So localizing them as much as possible would eliminate many of the long distance transmission lines.
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I've already installed LED's no I don't know why my energy usage would go up more, yeah I would still turn off lights I'm not using. I don't know why the cost would drop by a factor on 10 there is still all the maintenance and operational cost to generate the electricity and I can imagine the plants with the technology required would cost more than a natural gas/coal fired plant. Wind and solar was taunted the same and no they do not produce electricity for $.01. People in the middle ages had no source of energy nor anything that required it. I don't think the heat they produce is going to heat up the planet. There are some very workable and viable proposals for using the same technology used in nuclear submarines for neighborhood generation which would be quite safe and provide energy for several thousand homes.

    The only way to make EV's clean is to go nuclear else you are fueling them with coal or natural gas.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yep, when they think it's safe enough to shoot the rocket up over Beverly Hills, all for it, then must be safe
     
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    We don't do that now why would we do it with a secured safe nuclear containment launch? Of course we have a perfect place to bury it and any we would create of the several centuries.
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think there are ways to control the waste that would be used then it's a matter of do we have the will to stop rouge countries from doing so. Gasoline was weaponized yet we still use it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nuclear plants are great, the question is where to build them, Trump did not even want windmills near Mar-a-Lago, imagine if they wanted to build a nuclear plant nearby
     
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  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    have we shot large amounts of nuclear waste into space already, did not realize we had

    this is interesting

     
  13. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Where are they going to get enough Helium3? Mining on the moon isn't feasible yet. Maybe the giant hole in the ozone over the Atlantic will generate some Helium3?
     
  14. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    How does this lead back to trump? Does everything lead back to trump with you?
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump is just a famous rich person I felt some could relate too and he complained about windmills lowering the value of his real estate, now imagine a nuclear power plant nearby

    if they're safe to build around the rest of us, then they are safe to build around the rich, prove they are safe, build them there first
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  16. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Um, there's a nuclear power plant right up the coast from Mar-a-Lago.

    St. Lucie Nuclear Power Plant - Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › St._Lucie_Nuclear_Po...

    St. Lucie Nuclear Power Plant is a twin nuclear power station located on Hutchinson Island, near Port St. Lucie in St. Lucie County, Florida.

    And all that time Trump lived in New York, there was a nuke plant right down the coast.

    Oyster Creek Nuclear Generating Station - Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Oyster_Creek_Nuclear...



    Of course Trump doesn't want windmills anywhere near him. They're ugly and annoying and they suck, and they generate puny amounts of energy compared to nuke plants.

     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
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  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am talking in their backyard, right next to them, not down the coast
     
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  18. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    All well and good by there is no currently operational fusion reactor anywhere in the world and there's a huge difference between test bed plants and getting production models ready for commercial distribution. Same thing applies to any major advance in technology.

    First you build a basic test bed that proves the basic idea is practicable. Then you have to operate it continuously for a while to gather performance data and prove reliability. Then once your confident it works you have to build more test beds to operate under 'field conditions' in partnership with potential customers (because no-one is going to make a major capital investment like that without assessing risk). That or you build and operate your own commercial power plant and bring the customers to you. And once you've got your first orders you have to scale up production.

    So while Commonwealth might have their test plant running soon your still looking at probably a decade before they start getting plugged into commercial grids in enough numbers to make a difference. And that's the key issue! There has to be enough fusion power units on-line to make a substantial contribution in M/W hours. One or two 'show ponies' won't cut it

    Meanwhile the cost of solar cells and batteries will keep going down and there are several modular /scalable fission power plants at advanced stages of development. In reality? We'll almost certainly end up with a mix of sources.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  19. The Last American

    The Last American Newly Registered

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    Fusion is the future, if they do not set the world on fire first.
     
  20. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yet, it only takes one oopsy
    to contaminate land for thousands of years.
    Fukushima - oopsy
    Chernobyl - oopsy
    Three Mile Island - oopsy



    How about Earth neutral building materials?
    Get it?
    Roads & Buildings that are no longer heat reservoirs.



    Moi
    :oldman:


    STOP :flagcanada:
     
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  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's the small containment local generators that are the future. I wouldn't want a windmill farm near my house or neighborhood either.
     
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  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's baby steps indeed but even the modular generations from now using fusion technology would solve a lot of energy needs, we could then crack water to hydrogen cheaply to use for transportation and other uses that need range and time which battery technology cannot and will probably never match and get rid of the dirty battery technology and storage problems altogether.
     
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    would you want a Nuclear plant in your backyard?
     
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  24. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Except, your view of the matter is trough rose-colored glasses, rather than a factual view of history. Here is a graph that shows the explosion of per capita energy use of particular resources, once that resource became available:

    [​IMG]

    If we develop fusion, we would go through another energy use explosion, just like we did with the advent of fossil fuels. Not only is it human nature, it is also dictated by the laws of thermodynamics that any system maximizes the rate of entropy production within its constraints. If the constraints of low entropy material are removed by harnessing the power of the sun on earth, the rate of entropy production will adapt to that new envelope, i.e. it will explode.

    What you are proposing is that the sun is able to shine as bright as it does, but it rather keeps the rate of fusion down to "save" energy for a later day, so it shines less brightly and at lower temperature. That's not how it works, however, the sun also maximizes its rate of entropy production by burning the nuclear fuel as quickly as possible. Food for thought, or, you could rather keep living in your bubble to make everything abut politics and refuse to think about things in a deeper way, that maybe challenge your comfort zone.
     
  25. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    It is in our interest that power of all forms be less centralized.
     
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