Should we abandon democracy to save America?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Ronstar, Oct 12, 2021.

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Should we abandon democracy to save America?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    94.1%
  1. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It will be way better for us if we can without secession.
     
  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    only one trying to steal the 2020 election was Trump
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump is already talking about urging Republicans NOT to vote in 2022 and 2024, if the 2020 "fraud" is not reversed.

    Sounds like Trump may abandon democracy, urge his followers to do the same, and take up alternate means of selecting leaders.

    https://www.newsweek.com/trump-says...lKAUglV_--yXEVQ310Zp_JIcK7dGgH1z0CSl1i0eu1qlw


    secession? civil war? Fascist? dictatorship? violent coup?

    that's Trump getting at?
     
  4. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I quite like this one, though it would have to be very carefully handled. I proposed that very idea to a couple of young hipsters the other day, just to gauge their reaction. To my surprise they thought it was an okay idea. Neither own property, so I'm guessing it took some internal wrestling to see the value.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  5. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so you believe the American people should be ruled, rather than be the rulers?
     
  6. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    I believe those who do not contribute should not have a say in the use of our money.
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Renters do contribute of course (they're paying wages their landlord's wages, for starters), so it's probably more about how much blood property owners have invested in the soil. Buying a chunk of the nation, demonstrates a considerable commitment to place and future.
     
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  8. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Renters are not contributing if their rent comes from tax payer funds.
     
  9. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean like Poicemen, Firemen, Teachers, Sanitation workers, Forest Rangers, Soldiers, Politicians, Animal Control 9fficers, Prison Guards, .....Those people?
     
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  10. Fred68

    Fred68 Well-Known Member

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    I put little past the D's or any politician for that matter, but I don't think that's the only way D's can win. However, in 2022 and 2024, I believe the D's are in for upset unless the administration somehow redeems itself.

    By abandon democracy, do you mean illuminating initiative, referendum, and recall?
     
  11. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes .. THOSE renters. Agreed, they should probably be excluded from voting if there is a history of apathy.
     
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  12. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I suspect our friend means the other kind of public funding.
     
  13. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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  14. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

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  15. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who pays sales tax contributes.
     
  16. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    You realize how far this is from my statement. If I have to explain the difference you’re not capable of understanding my point anyway
     
  17. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    With what? Welfare money? That’s not contribution.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  18. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    I doubt the people employed in the businesses where that money is spent see it that way, but that isn't really the point. You just want to exclude people you assume will disagree with you from voting.

    I will give you points for honesty. The long standing conservative quest to narrow the definition of 'worth' in society to the propertied classes and limit democratic participation similarly is too often forgotten. That fundamental threat to democracy and society should be something that everyone understand sits just beneath the surface of so much conservative rhetoric, as the GOP works to entrench itself in power with consistently less of the vote than Democrats. If the citizens don't like your policies just make sure they can't do anything about them.

    Thanks for the reminder of what conservatism is truly about.
     
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    A wise position. Most of what federal government does would be done better elsewhere. We have way too much federal govenrment. It is the nation's single worst problem. Everything else is just details.
     
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  20. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The question should be restated "Should we ban the Constitution..... " The way it is stated it could be interpreted our Constitution does not allow for direct Social Democracy so it must be done away with.
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Your point concedes the disaster, it just tries to shift blame. When Trump was president everyone was trying to grab credit for his results.
     
  22. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    No but I figure the root question is actually, should we abandon America to save the Republican Party?
     
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  23. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Beyond the provocative intro (I understand the concern beyond).

    The problem of democracy is that it's based on two fundamental things :
    _ Like money, it's value is based on the confidence put in it. A currency that nobody trust the value is worthless.
    In the same time, if nobody consider the leader of a democratic country, then democracy become null.
    _ Democracy suggest that people are united in a minimal way and don't consider democracy as a way for another (religious, ethnic) group to oppress them. Democracy is the power of the people, and I doubt it can work as power of peoples that hate each other could work.

    I think that democracy is failing in many countries unfortunately. I doubt there is any easy way to solve that problem.
     
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  24. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

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    Your posting never actually make salient points, many are off topic and merely mud sling and deflect. COVID was mishandled under Trump, your party under trump made it political and now you want to blame Biden for coming in behind the eight to clean things up. Politics is not zero sum.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  25. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Fake news. My points were the very essence of salience, marvelously on topic and amazingly targetted. You seem to have merely memorized some phrases that you show little understanding of and use them to deflect from the fact Biden and his team do absolutely nothing helpful while the problem turns into a crisis and then a disaster, and then when it's undeniable that they have yet another catastrophe on their hands, they deflect, finger point and engage in a number of activities others than actually solving the crisis that resulted from their neglect.

    Under Biden, with 3 vaccines and 85%+ of adults vaccinated and/or with natural immunity on 9/5/21, the 7 day average deaths are 9,050, 65% higher than Trump's numbers at the same point in 2020 when no US adults were vaccinated. Biden has "cleaned nothing up." He hasn't even bothered to put his vaccine mandate, which he claims is crucial, into an executive order. Is he still looking for a paper and pen? Does he have something more important to do, than something about the 9,050 Americans dying of COVID each week? A year ago, loud voices on the Left claimed that 5,502/week under Trump was an unbearable disaster, and now over half again more is "cleaning up the mess"? In what sense? By putting the dead in body bags?

    It's weird how some folks think deflective phrases and blame shifting are equivalent to actually finding and implementing a solution.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
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