How can the Vatican justify its wealth?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by efjay, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't know why I bother responding to these threads. Stupid question, and probably no one will read my answer all the way down on page 6.

    It's just common sense for a big organisation to have money saved. There are over 1 billion Catholics in the world, so naturally we would expect the central church to have a lot of money in their savings.

    I also seem to remember this same question being asked before in another thread.
    Vatican low on reserves to cover deficit, seeking donations

    I responded in page 4 post #76 in this thread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you are just feeling the emotion of jealousy. Jealousy that some people put together and built something beautiful for their place of worship.
     
  3. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Well, religion in general is charitable. Any sacraments are technically free and paid to by “ donations”. It’s a worthwhile loophole.
     
  4. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Nope. I give the RCC a complete pass on this one. I make no comparison and no, the RCC were at odds with the Nazi party.
     
  5. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    It’s not suppose to be necessary though.
     
  6. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Oh you are quite welcome and the Nazis are actually quite relevant here.

    The Vatican actually didn't denounce Hitler at the time he was in power. They, as usual, were more concerned about their own power and influence. And they at the time were still very anti-semitic. They had been a major driving force behind the anti-Semitism that Hitler used.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/08/29/9070...fer-new-clues-into-vatican-response-to-holoca

     
  7. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    It's always been a state ran religion...
     
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  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not necessary. That doesn't mean it's not good though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just more half lies.

    There are plenty of documentaries that address this. We've had threads about it...
    Not going to waste our time discussing it here.

    You people just sling a bunch of mud and expect the other side to have to defend against countless accusations. You derail threads with your whataboutism.

    No one should believe you. Go post it in another thread, or provide a link here to that thread, for anyone who wants to discuss that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
    Kokomojojo and Lindis like this.
  10. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Protest if any kind could’ve cost you your life. I would criticize the RCC to the same level as any “neutral” country at that same time….because the RCC is as much about politics as religion. Self preservation was a motivating factor with all the citizens of Germany. It was a ruthless regime that murdered or imprisoned and punished non compliant citizens as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  11. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    The Vatican is the door that Satan uses to sneak its way into church.
     
  12. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Its the biggest and most successful scam of all time. This is an organization that used to outright sell indulgences. This is an organization that was more concerned with it's image than with either Jews under Hitler or victims of pedophile priests.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  13. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ws...e-poor-to-plug-its-budget-deficit-11576075764

    Nothing to see here folks.

    The Catholic Church is all about helping people...
     
  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People's standards can change, but God cannot change, and the moral and natural laws in His creations cannot change. One either accepts this reality and tries to abide by it, or they don't and become pseudo gods in their own right.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    How about, the Vatican is about 150 years behind the times ?
     
  16. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    It’s not a natural law to limit priest hood to unmarried males…that didn’t start out as a married Episcopalian . That’s all politics, can’t hear otherwise.

    Btw, tell me who the pseudo gods are. Never got an answer from any Christian.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    God works in miraculous ways, so while there are attacks on the institution of the Catholic Church by the atheist and secular West, in other parts of the world there is a massive revival of Christianity - something that the world hasn't seen probably since the time of Saint Francis. Instead of the secularism they want, monasticism is growing. What's even more miraculous though, is that God is breaking down the ethnic and cultural barriers that created schisms in the Churches.

    The largest monastery in Greece is surprisingly named after Saint Augustine a Western Father of the Church, and whose writings were never fully accepted by the Orthodox East. The monastery was also given the name of the Russian Saint Seraphim of Sarov, someone who was totally unknown in Greece.

    Man makes His plans, but God has His own plans and unlike the plans of men, God works through the human heart.


    [​IMG]
     
  18. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Stop right there. It’s usually followed by speculation and non proofs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  19. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Huh ? Why even send down a man in his own likeness, white European, if man’s plans are irrelevant ?

    Human heart ? Seriously ? It’s just a muscle. At least say the “brain”, the organ that controls awareness.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  20. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The married priesthood was imposed so the gifts given to the priests wouldn't go to their children. It is though a hard thing for someone to live in the secular world, and yet retain their celibacy - especially in the society we live in.

    The problem with having married priests is that the RCC can't afford it. The Greek Church here is quite wealthy so they can carry the costs of supporting a family - although I'm not sure that will continue what with the smaller congregations because of Corona. And yet even with married priests, there have been issues of morality similar, but not to the extent of the RCC.

    I think anything one idolizes such as prestige, money, fame, etc., is a pseudo god - at least to them. And I think anyone who makes themselves as the decisive factor in what is and what should be, has become a god in their own right.
     
  21. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I guess all that means you agree that the Catholic version of god doesn’t restrict priesthood to male sexual expression denied males who were protected by the RCC for decades. That’s another poor choice the church made.

    can you be more specific about non Catholic gods….like, name some religions that worship false gods.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  22. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Was the RCC aware of what was going on, since the purest individuals are the Saints, and they were all calumniated and slandered during their lives. Also the first person to be accused was the Cardinal of Chicago (I have a long memory), and the boy later rescinded.

    Other than that, Christianity is supposed to be forgiving and non judgmental for everyone is a sinner. It was assumed the priests if guilty had repented. From what I noticed, the one priest was demonically possessed, and he should have been retired rather than sent to other parishes.

    Anyway, there was definitely a spiritual failure in the Catholic Church and it started from the time of Vatican II when the bishops were told to adapt to the prevalent culture - and some of the bishops made a mess of it.

    You shouldn't say non Catholic gods, but rather non Christian gods. All Christians worship our Triad God: Father (Creator), Son (God's Word), and Holy Spirit (God's Spirit that comforts and binds us).

    When someone mentions false gods, they are talking about what individuals worship, not about a specific faith. Nationalism would be a false god, since it's a worship of one's ethnicity and culture, or striving for power and money would be the worship of a false god. Believing in man's ability above God would be a worship of a false god.
     
  23. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who said white European would be God's likeness? God is not a physical being, so the likeness has to do with other aspects.

    The human heart is in reference to a person's love and compassion towards others - and that has nothing to do with a person's mind. It's what unites one with an all Pure and Loving God. This is why Jesus said, the Kingdom of God is within us.
     
  24. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Secular west ?

    In all religion, everything is subtle code that needs interpretation. This interpretation changes like the seasons depending upon what is necessary. It’s like a magic act with words.

    A friend, and ex priest once answered my question that he show me evidence of god. He replied with a traditional and meaningless statement, “ how can you deny god when you see a sunset or hear a classical piece.” It was exactly what I expected in the European based Catholic religious orthodoxy and evidence free world. That’s a typical illusion and meaningless to someone who was color blind and prefers country music…sorry, it’s not working.

    You seem quite devout and well educated in the ways of the church. But the illusion surrounding the Vatican perception of Christianity, is just that.
    I
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  25. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    This rings true to me. With no evidence one way or another, any god or kingdom there in, really only exists in the human mind.
     

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