Is Democracy Anti-christian?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Jolly Penguin, Oct 18, 2021.

  1. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    8,217
    Likes Received:
    3,847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I can see two competing arguments to this:

    1. God is depicted as a celestial dictator. That's as anti-democratic and as authoritarian as it gets.

    2. God, being imaginary, or silent if real, and being the top guy, prevents Kings and Emperors under the religion from claiming the top spot. So if anything, this discourages dictatorship and encourages democracy. And the Pope is voted on.

    Which side do you come down on here and why?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  2. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    46,671
    Likes Received:
    26,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If I were to choose between your two options, I would go with #2.

    Personally, I think there is a third option - here on earth, God wants us to be the top guy - not a dictator - so democratic republicanism that upholds the inherent rights of the individual would be the logical/natural choice.

    Now, if we're talking about democracy as nothing better or different than unrestrained mob rule, there may be some issues, and that's where people like Hobbes made a case for absolute monarchism in order to prevent anarchy and all the ills associated with it.
     
  3. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You mean we are a democratic republic, not republicanism. We are a nation of laws under a Constitution to prohibit Government to take away our basic rights as individuals. We vote for people to lead us to write laws under the Constitution, not over it or around it as Democrats do. As we see today, Democrats who rule allow for mob rule and need to have anarchy to attain superiority. Thus, a pure democracy leads to loss of individual rights and free moral agency. In the beginning of such a movement, it appears as if people have more free moral agency as the small minority of perverts can act out their perversions such as, homosexual behavioral acts, transgenderism and all other manner of iniquity and unholiness. Satan is sneaky before he places us all in his chains of hell.
     
  4. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    869
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think of it as anti-Christian.
    The bible establishes God as the sovereign of the entire universe. Christians are advised to follow his rules and also the rules of men as long as the rules of men do not conflict with the rules of God. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, render unto God that which is God’s.
    Voting someone else to be your ruler is to say that you believe their rule is more important.
    I personally think Christianity as it has evolved today is completely against the teachings of the bible.
     
    Hey Now likes this.
  5. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    When you say Christianity, what do you mean? I believe in Christ but don't believe we should vote into office those who go against the basic laws, commandments and doctrine of Christ. However, as we stand today, it's nearly impossible to find politicians who have platforms that coincide with those of Christ's. So, most of the time, it's voting for the one who will uphold the most important doctrines of Christ. Or, even the ten commandments.
     
  6. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    15,298
    Likes Received:
    3,380
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think a study of the world's countries should give you direction. Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism seem to aligns well with Democracy. Islam not so much.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
    Polydectes likes this.
  7. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    869
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I mean all of the various denominations and churches. I know, it’s a pretty broad claim.

    Just remember Jesus’ main opponent in his day was the established “clergy” and he was so shocked and outraged he spent his days overturning tables.

    I also don’t think that God would want the Ten Commandments voted in through a human government. The whole point of the Hebrew Scriptures was that his chosen people could not live up to his standard through the kingdom of Israel. Christ showed that these laws must be imprinted on your heart, not in a law book.

    I think the bible is clear that Christians should come to God because they love him, not because they are compelled to.

    Not that I want you to feel that I am judging you. I was taught these things from a different perspective than you might have been.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
    Hey Now likes this.
  8. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    869
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And to be clear, my overall position is that of an agnostic. Ultimately I think the bible can be manipulated for whatever. I don’t see there being an ultimate truth there. There are definitely some valuable insights there but on the whole it’s a mish mash.
     
  9. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,163
    Likes Received:
    3,096
    Trophy Points:
    113
    (non-christian)9 I don'f think if universalism and democracy were born in christian countries was a result of randomness.

    Jesus Christ saw worthiness even in the smallest of beggar, as democracy see worthiness for voting equally.

    In a global manner, I think that the political state of a country represent the dominant state of spirit of the said country.
     
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,618
    Likes Received:
    11,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here's an interesting thought. This might be one of the whole main reasons the world exists.
    To show mankind the different possible forms of government and what they will result in. If true, I expect things are going to start going downhill soon in all those First World good parts of the world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,708
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Perhaps - in ways - God does play dice with the universe :) - spins the wheel and lets random probability do its thing. .. one universe the rules are this .. other universe the rules are that .. who knows what the Mind of the Most High is up to ?
     
  12. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Interesting question. Based on my Lutheran upbringing, I would want to respond that God appoints leaders, no matter whether they are kings or democratically elected officials. Either way, it would all be "God's plan" (yes, that means God, if real, would be rigging elections :D )
     
  13. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    10,256
    Likes Received:
    6,974
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don’t think god much cares one way or the other. This existence on earth is a school for us to figure out what spiritual polarity we will pursue in our higher forms of existence. I think he helps us when we ask for it, and provides us what we need to learn the lessons our souls are working on. But other than that, I think he lets things go as they will. Him interfering beyond our own will for ourselves would negate the whole reason for us being here in the first place.
     
    Hey Now likes this.
  14. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2021
    Messages:
    17,076
    Likes Received:
    13,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Interesting analysis. Almost comes full circle!
     
    Josh77 likes this.
  15. Bezukhov

    Bezukhov Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    200
    Trophy Points:
    43
    So it is all His fault
     
    Dirty Rotten Imbecile likes this.
  16. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    869
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well you have to ask, did he appoint Hitler and Stalin and Andrew Jackson?
     
    Bezukhov likes this.
  17. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He only turned over tables on one occasion that lasted for about 30 seconds. Not every day for 3 years. The rest of the time he was teaching, preaching and healing. That's how he spent his days.
    Why would God not want the governments of the earth include His commandments? Of course he would. In fact, one government, the City of Enoch, did and lived up to the commandments so much that God raised the city into heaven.
    The point of the Old Testament was bring people to the point of accepting the higher law laid out in the New Testament. The Priesthood, which is the authority of God given to man to do the work of God on the earth, went from Levitical (Aaronic Priesthood) to Melchizedek Priesthood level. The OT was to bring the people and prepare them to accept their Lord upon his first coming. From time to time and location to location of Zion, the people did live up to the Law. Then, there were times they did not and were carried away by the enemies of God.
    I agree that Christians should come unto Christ because we love Him and want to keep his commandments and learn his doctrines. And, we should not have to be compelled to.
    If you want to discuss each of these points further, I'm open to this.
     
  18. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    869
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think our disagreement is denominational in origin. I think you could probably support your argument quite well and I, were I that interested, could probably support my point quite well. We probably wouldn’t really come around to each other’s perspective. Such is the nature of Christianity.
     
  19. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If that were the case, might as well close the doors of all Christian Churches. The churches thrive on missionary work to bring people into their way of understanding doctrine as well as a large list of reasons. Rarely do people convert from one Christian Church to another based on doctrine. They usually convert based on what they feel is comfortable for them. A missionary oriented church may receive converts that are not outgoing and comfortable testifying and witnessing, but not very many. And, if they do, they either change their stinkin thinkin or they quietly exit activity and fellowship with that church. People switch often because they were offended for a variety of reasons. But, sometimes, for those who are theory oriented thinkers and reason logically for their decisions, will change also. So, who knows. Is that really the point here? So, pick a topic.
     
  20. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Messages:
    6,149
    Likes Received:
    2,857
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think the closest form of government to Christianity is theocracy. With the Pope or some other high priest on the top as God's representative on earth.
     
  21. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    God would rather a society be a democratic republic because it allows for more free moral agency to choose good or evil. This is why God influenced our founding Fathers in the USA to form our Constitution the way it is. As far as God's government, it is obviously a theocracy from on high and one of order. God's house is a house of order and prayer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    Jeannette likes this.
  22. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    869
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you have have him on speed dial?
     
  23. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    8,217
    Likes Received:
    3,847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A celestial North Korea, as Hitchens used to say.
     
  24. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I sure do! It's call prayer...
     
  25. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not at all. No one who doesn't want to be there is forced to be there. And, there is no poverty as the United Order is in effect. All there are there because they want to be there. Have you been forced to be there? Nope...
     

Share This Page