How can the Vatican justify its wealth?

Of course. But I doubt it was statically a “normal” behavior. But what’s just as troublesome is not just those engaged in it, but all those engaged in the cover up.

 

I know some Muslims who drink alcohol. I have even met a Muslim stripper. They do these things against Islam, and people wear condoms against Catholicism.

Agreed. Sadly though the RCC disagrees. The RCC was more concerned with it's image, as is usually the case (not denouncing Hitler during WW2 being another prime example).

 

Oh, agree. Aamof, I think a very large number of participating Catholics oppose the Church on many issues, may even be agnostic. But, they go along to get along. In the long run, it’s good for no one.

 

The best Catholics are the ones addicted to cats, not religion.

 

that's why I left the church , I have been searching , I found a home in a UCC church but then the liberals took over so I am looking

 

Bad things

really wasn't called for

 

Ha ha
I played the game and had the big V. Figured it was better just to sin once. That’s how we doubters play the game. Unfortunately, all that aid by the church in third world countries is not efficiently “paid “ by a church they can’t come to grip with reality.

 

Most cats are better than most humans. Being addicted to cats isn't a bad thing.

There is also nothing wrong with moderate drinking or stripping btw, or wearing condoms.

 

The big V? Viagra? Volleyball?

 

Really, any church can fill some need for service to we agnostics.
So, Not me nor my wife. There is some good played out by religion in a country like ours so devoid of responsibility to the poor and less fortunate. If this were a country where we actually were concerned by a central govt, even fewer would have anything to do with the church, including us.

 

Being an atheist it isn't my place, but I would like to see a push for a more sermon on the mount version of Christianity, with people high fiving hippy Jesus while giving to the poor.

 

For me it’s just, “ coexisting with cats?”
I wasn’t willing to pay the money to fix our totally useless cat, so I learned from a distant farm owning family member how to “fix” him. The cat became mouse hunting contributing family member……who would run when ever I entered the room for about a year. So , yes, they have good memories and can be trained.

 

Exactly…..I hope a nude version version Jesus Christ Superstar returns with the proceeds going towards “clothing” the poor and homeless. Seems appropriate,

 

vasectomy…..by a Dr Files..yipes.

 

Be careful of any institution with too many liberals….

 

You have to look at everything in the context of the times. What was known during the rise of Hitler, was the evils of International communism and its attacks on Christianity which culminated in the deaths of over 40 million and the destruction of 50 thousand churches. It was a battle against Christianity and it was engrossed in the minds of the people and the Church.

The Nazis and Fascism were nationalist parties and they came into being to fight atheism and international Communism, so to oppose them, you were indirectly giving support to the communists who were against the Church and Christianity.

Later on when the Germans began occupying countries and deporting people, the Church began realizing that it was one evil against another evil. When the bishops and priests in the Netherlands began condemning the Nazi deportations, the Germans responded by arresting 300 converts and shipping them to the concentration camps. In Poland 2 thousand clergy were sent to die, so the Pope was walking a very thin line, and had to be careful what he said and did.

He also didn't want to endanger the Vatican which was off limits to the Germans. From what I recall in a movie that was made after WWII, about 20 thousand Jews were living in the Vatican during the war.. Also the Pope had given orders to the nuns in Rome to hide Jews in the hospitals whenever they could. Any misstep would have endangered everyone's lives.

 

And that’s why I give the Vatican a pass in their relationship to the axis powers. Given all that you say is true, I can do nothing but applaud them as reasonable actions of fallible and fearful men.

That doesn’t absolve them from remaining silent, it just explains it. It’s only more evidence that reinforces that the Vatican represents the fallibility of man and not the expression of the wishes of a god.

I don’t criticize any institution at that time when in the clutches of a crazy man with hideous ideas. But, that may not what a Pope does who professes to be Christ like would do and overtly stand up against oppression and injustice as Christ himself did .

A devout Christian, any Christian can’t have it both ways without performing verbal gymnastics, usually ending with “god acting in mysterious ways.” So let’s agree that the Vatican was not unreasonable in attempting to preserve itself while still acting like any charitable institution might do in such circumstances.

There were many other acts of heroism by peoples trying to save as many Jews as possible. They were just men and women too but never pretended to represent the wishes of a god.

 

3 forensic doctors examined thousands of bodies and could not find any gassed jews
There were no death camps.
The miltary police after the war were arresting the propagandists after the war for lying about the gassing and the camps
Gemany' president admitted it was all made up!



they had swimming pools at auschwitz and jews could buy beer at the cantina!

How is that a death camp?

The orchestra wasnt assembled to play for the nazis, they played for the prisoners.

Wall street praised hitler

The nazis did not drop the fist bomb that started the war britain did

there were over 150,000 jewish soldiers in hitlers army, several in the highest ranks
hitler wanted the jews out of germany nothing more.
just like america locked up every jap
AntiJapism?

false, the treaty of versailles, the jewish boycot, the dnzig straights, and the 50,000 germans that were raped tortured and slaughtered by the poles lead up to the war.
hitler arrested rothschild for his crimes against the state, no surprize hitler is hated when he had the balls to arrest the guy with enough money to buy the US

You mean you dont know that an international boycott is an act of war? Seriously?
then jews declared war on germany,
anti semetic?
stating the facts, there are several citations.
I can go into my archives and dig out a whole page of citations ffs
So in your mind posting the facts is antisemetic? seriously? you got a horse in that race?

no it wasnt, the jews created it, its in the talmud ffs
they hated gentiles and gentiles are anyone not jew

If the jews did not kill jc who did?

but that does not mean jews did not kill him.

bingo, thats about the shortest version I ever heard, you forgot a lot of it like the allied land grab stealing legitimate property and colonies.

Most people believe the propaganda mills instead of getting the facts.

It was believed for years that 4million people were gassed at auschwitz, mostly jews!
Well now we have the official records and only 375,000 people total were ever in auschwitz and 11,000 refused to leave when they evacuate the camp!



Tape and reel numbers are included, you can look them up for yourselves in the national archives.

 

Holocaust denial has no place on any board.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convicted_war_criminals

 

So the evil Jews declared war on Germany and Hitler never had any death camps?

I was never impressed with our dear Koko, but I did not expect him to come out as a neo nazi. Colour me surprised.

 

how does standing up for the facts make me a neo nazi?
that is the earmark of a politically motivated dirty debate trick to turn people away from looking at the evidence
no there were no 'death' camps, and that is a fact, not my opinion.
Now america did in fact have a death camp.

 

Color me embarrassed for the rest board.

 

Why? I never denied the holocaust, whats your problem?

 

The Vatican refused to speak out while the Jews were being persecuted by the Nazis.

They even refused to speak out when the Jews of Rome were being arrested and deported.

The actions of the Vatican during WW2, and their refusal to lift a damn finger or speak a word to help the Jews, makes them morally bankrupt.

And now their silence on sexual abuse of hundreds of thousands of Catholic children? Not just silence, but working hard to protect violent pedophile priests??? The RCC has lost all moral credibility they may have ever had, if they ever did have any.

 

I have no idea if they were evil or not, they did declare war on germany in word and action to prove it, whats your problem with that?